Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:03 am  

jonh wrote:

But relying on players with very little experience to support them is very dangerous.

You only need to think bank to the semi final of the cup, where the Leeds forwards totally dominated us and out young Props were totally unable to prevent it.

not as dangerous as a prop who does 10 minutes, hes wasting a bench spot and has the potential to tire out our own pack if we lose someone to injury because he cant do the minutes

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:19 am  

Pieman wrote:

not as dangerous as a prop who does 10 minutes, hes wasting a bench spot and has the potential to tire out our own pack if we lose someone to injury because he cant do the minutes

As I said I don’t see him as a bench player next year but more of a supporting act should we pick up injuries.

Over the years we have seen how difficult it is to develop 2 Props at first team level at the same time.

Rarely have both made the grade.

If Clubb goes we are pretty much attempting to develop 4 at the same time.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:43 am  

jonh wrote:

But relying on players with very little experience to support them is very dangerous.

You only need to think bank to the semi final of the cup, where the Leeds forwards totally dominated us and out young Props were totally unable to prevent it.

To be fair we were massively dominated in the Grand Final (especially the first half), but for our dogged defence it would have been over as a contest early. Mental to think we were inches away from winning it.

Imagine a dominating pack with that backline, mouthwatering.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:58 am  

I just can't see the club letting Flower, Clubb, Navarette and Clarke all leave and not replace them. Especially with huge question marks over Burgess too.

If Clubb leaves, we'll hopefully bring someone in.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:54 pm  

MattyB wrote:

To be fair we were massively dominated in the Grand Final (especially the first half), but for our dogged defence it would have been over as a contest early. Mental to think we were inches away from winning it.

Imagine a dominating pack with that backline, mouthwatering.

If we'd have had Walmsley (even on one leg) we'd have won easily, on the other hand if they'd have had Hastings it would probably been a massacre with the possession and territory they had.
Here's hoping they don't find a quality half any time soon

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:28 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

I just can't see the club letting Flower, Clubb, Navarette and Clarke all leave and not replace them. Especially with huge question marks over Burgess too.

If Clubb leaves, we'll hopefully bring someone in.

Do players brought through our academy not count as replacements? We know Havard signed a new contract, for example. Compared with last season he's gone from being a squad player to a starter, and will surely be taking up a lot more of the cap than he was. I don't know off the top of my head whether Partington, Byrne, Kilner, Smithies and Joe Shorrocks signed new contracts recently or not but they have all improved their standing too, and will want paying accordingly.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:02 pm  

jonh wrote:

I don’t disagree about the 2 year deal was an odd one, we don’t know the full circumstances at the time, cap restrictions, others available etc.

At the moment we have 2 Props in their prime years, not including Burgess, the rest are very young and inexperienced. It could be a lot worse than having a player like Clubb to come in if they need resting or rotating.

The Burgess situation again is what causes the issue in all these discussions.

We are a prop light as it is, assuming no change with him for 2021, Clark is on his way out and now people are talking about “driving Clubb to Leeds”.

I wouldn’t be against him going but we would then need to recruit 2 props if we were to do so and one would have to be a player in their prime, if not both.

I believe the Prop market at the moment is very competitive with quite a few teams still looking for Props (maybe why he is being linked with Leeds) and I’ve no doubt salaries will be inflated for lads on the market.

It was me who said I would drive him to Leeds, and I stand by it. In a salary cap sport, no matter how useful in case of injuries, no matter how good for the youngsters, no matter how good in the changing room, you cannot carry a man who at best gives you 10mins and is done.

I would rather have a young lad on the bench who I knew would put in a good shift when needed. Imagine one or 2 of our props were injured in the first 10 mins of a game and Tony has to cover. He would have no hope.

He did a job for 4 years or so, I thank him for it and also and wish him well, but if we can do it we do 2 things, get rid of Clubb and replace and get rid and replace Burgess - or better still get him fit.

Do this and we are the teams to fear next year.

I would suggest what you are describing above is a luxury, and in salary cap sport you cant have a luxury item. You have a squad that's value for money whether they are marquee or a young un coming through, what you dont have is something in the squad that could help but generally wont play, particularly a senior pro.

Its tough, but that's the way it is in League right now.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:09 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Do players brought through our academy not count as replacements? We know Havard signed a new contract, for example. Compared with last season he's gone from being a squad player to a starter, and will surely be taking up a lot more of the cap than he was. I don't know off the top of my head whether Partington, Byrne, Kilner, Smithies and Joe Shorrocks signed new contracts recently or not but they have all improved their standing too, and will want paying accordingly.

Of course they do, but as the poster above pointed out it isn't fair for them to be asked to fill the gap left by 2 senior pros.

I'd be happy with 4 out and 1 in. That provides experience and opportunity for the new crop to get game time.

I'm not getting into another argument about cap space too. I'll just say, once again, the cap is live. You can't upgrade contracts with the intention of potentially moving other people on. Clubb is still a Wigan player and has a contract with us. All the other deals and salaries are locked in and separate to his wage.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:44 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Do players brought through our academy not count as replacements? We know Havard signed a new contract, for example. Compared with last season he's gone from being a squad player to a starter, and will surely be taking up a lot more of the cap than he was. I don't know off the top of my head whether Partington, Byrne, Kilner, Smithies and Joe Shorrocks signed new contracts recently or not but they have all improved their standing too, and will want paying accordingly.

The 25 highest paid players count against the salary cap. So using your example, Havard might be promoted to the top 25 but his salary may be less than somebody who has left the Club e.g. Greenwood, and therefore there would be a saving.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:12 pm  

I really don’t understand why people want us to keep Clubb, obviously unless someone comes for him we will as he’s under contract but over the last couple of years he’s been poor, very low minutes, not a great deal of impact in those minutes either, it’s not like he’s coming on and causing carnage like Feka and with him being a senior player I would guess he’s on a decent wage.
I would take Singleton, Bullock, Havard, Partington, Byrne, Isa, Smithies and Shorrocks all above him at front row and I would have taken Navarette and Clark above him too. If we can get shut I would, even if it’s just to leave space under the cap for a possible signing midway through the season.