Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:19 am  

Stu M wrote:

Reading some of the stuff on here I must have watched a different game on Friday.

What I saw was a Saints team that made 4 breaks compared to Wigan making 0.

What I saw was an admittedly very hard working Thompson make poor post contact metres and dominated in a few collisions. Compare that to Walmsley who scattered defenders for fun and Knowles who was the best player on the pitch. Thompson must earn more on his own than those two put together.

Lees was MOM and we had Matautia playing prop, second row and centre at different times and not looking out of place in any position. Who else can do that??

I love this narrative too that there’s loads of improvement left in Wigan but not Saints. Wardle was going to humiliate Hurrell apparently. What I saw was one running over the top of the other for his try.

Yes the dry tracks will help Wigan but when the wet weather comes again in October then we have the superior pack and the game plan to suit. Let’s not forget that despite the Walters, Cooper and Havard excuses, we have Bell and Passi to come back into that pack. Bell is probably the player of the season in the forwards.

Are we also ignoring we lost Percival and Batchelor for the last 20-25 mins too??

Wigan defended outstandingly well and showed they are a Champion team. Our attack is still off but in mitigation we have had a different 2-5 all season with Makinson, Hurrell and Percival all missing games and Blake finding his feet. Compare that to Wigan having a settled 2-5 all season.

Of course the red card was a factor but there’s nothing to say how the game would’ve finished without it. No one knows.

The fact remains that Wigan didn’t make a single break all game and there’s an argument to say that French lost control anyway so on another day they could’ve been nilled.

I’ve seen a few Wigan fans saying they would go unbeaten all season and Saints are finished. We are gone, no threat anymore.

Well there’s life in the old dog yet and I wouldn’t bet against us when we play you again.

Amazing what 2 late tries can do to peoples recollections of the game. If we stay at 13 vs 13 we win the game. At the time Byrne was sent off we had taken control and Thompson was leading the way. Walmsley had the 30-40 yard run at the end but without that his stats wouldnt be much different to Thompsons.

Enjoy the win And lets hope we can draw each other in the semis of the cup and we can do it again on a firmer pitch

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:20 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

The old narrative that Saints players do it for the love of the game Walmsley and Knowles get paid in Tesco vouchers I believe.

Enjoy the win. It was two sides with commitment levels through the roof but one played pretty well with the ball and had better discipline (according to the ref anyway and that’s the man that counts) and the others execution was poor and discipline terrible. The second side got done in the last 7 minutes, with 12 men for the second time in the game and has far more reasons to think it’ll improve as the season goes on IMO. It still might not be enough because Saints are a great side but we’ll see how it plays out. It’s a long old season!

Why are you being stupid? I’m merely pointing out the salary that Thompson earns and the expectations that come with that. He’s miles away from the 2019 version and I wouldn’t swap him for a Knowles, Walmsley or a Matautia.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:31 am  

Stu M wrote:

Why are you being stupid? I’m merely pointing out the salary that Thompson earns and the expectations that come with that. He’s miles away from the 2019 version and I wouldn’t swap him for a Knowles, Walmsley or a Matautia.

I thought Matautia was the best of the 3 Friday.

I genuinely don't get the love in for Knowles. According to the Superleague website he made 20 carries for 106 metres yet the apparently dominated Thompson made 101m from 16 carries.

I have never seen Knowles break a tackle.

Like I said in my previous post 2 late tries have made this into some performance with the ball it wasn't for Saints. At the time of the red card we had started to dominate after HT and if we had stayed 13 vs 13 we would have won the game

Lets hope we can draw each other in the cup and do it again

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:35 am  

bazdev wrote:

I thought Matautia was the best of the 3 Friday.

I genuinely don't get the love in for Knowles. According to the Superleague website he made 20 carries for 106 metres yet the apparently dominated Thompson made 101m from 16 carries.

I have never seen Knowles break a tackle.

Like I said in my previous post 2 late tries have made this into some performance with the ball it wasn't for Saints. At the time of the red card we had started to dominate after HT and if we had stayed 13 vs 13 we would have won the game

Lets hope we can draw each other in the cup and do it again

Dominated so much you didn’t make a single break? Ok mate

Oh and on Knowles he smashed in defence all game and showed some nice hands on more than one occasion.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:40 am  

Stu M wrote:

Dominated so much you didn’t make a single break? Ok mate

Oh and on Knowles he smashed in defence all game and showed some nice hands on more than one occasion.

Which shows how dominant we were at that time for ten mins were camped on your line winning the collisions and penning you back which is where the red card came from at the time. This is literally the definition of dominating a side

We weren't clinical with the execution and that relates to no clean breaks but from 40-60 we were dominating.

Knowles 36 tackles 107m best player on the pitch. Thompson 30 tackles 101m in less time on the pitch was dominated. Can you see the overreaction?

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:41 am  

Stu M wrote:

Why are you being stupid? I’m merely pointing out the salary that Thompson earns and the expectations that come with that. He’s miles away from the 2019 version and I wouldn’t swap him for a Knowles, Walmsley or a Matautia.

Don’t take things personal Stu. Insults aren’t usually what you’re about.

Saints have thrown this narrative around for the last few years that players play for peanuts, they don’t do marquee spots etc but people can’t be expected to believe that. What could a prime Walmsley have expected to be offered in the NRL? I’d say upwards of 500k, so let’s not make out that guys like him and Knowles are going hungry in comparison to Thompson. No doubt about it, Thompson will be on a great deal and looking at him this season, he deserves it. He was absolutely superb on Friday (and he has been in every other game for us) and I find it highly amusing that a fan base that ‘Doesn’t care about Thompson’ have spent their weekends trying to play down how good he was. Alex Walmsley was the best player on the field, with Thompson and Brad O’Neill in a group along with guys like Knowles and Matautia behind that.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:56 am  

Stu M wrote:

Reading some of the stuff on here I must have watched a different game on Friday.

What I saw was a Saints team that made 4 breaks compared to Wigan making 0.

What I saw was an admittedly very hard working Thompson make poor post contact metres and dominated in a few collisions. Compare that to Walmsley who scattered defenders for fun and Knowles who was the best player on the pitch. Thompson must earn more on his own than those two put together.

Lees was MOM and we had Matautia playing prop, second row and centre at different times and not looking out of place in any position. Who else can do that??

I love this narrative too that there’s loads of improvement left in Wigan but not Saints. Wardle was going to humiliate Hurrell apparently. What I saw was one running over the top of the other for his try.

Yes the dry tracks will help Wigan but when the wet weather comes again in October then we have the superior pack and the game plan to suit. Let’s not forget that despite the Walters, Cooper and Havard excuses, we have Bell and Passi to come back into that pack. Bell is probably the player of the season in the forwards.

Are we also ignoring we lost Percival and Batchelor for the last 20-25 mins too??

Wigan defended outstandingly well and showed they are a Champion team. Our attack is still off but in mitigation we have had a different 2-5 all season with Makinson, Hurrell and Percival all missing games and Blake finding his feet. Compare that to Wigan having a settled 2-5 all season.

Of course the red card was a factor but there’s nothing to say how the game would’ve finished without it. No one knows.

The fact remains that Wigan didn’t make a single break all game and there’s an argument to say that French lost control anyway so on another day they could’ve been nilled.

I’ve seen a few Wigan fans saying they would go unbeaten all season and Saints are finished. We are gone, no threat anymore.

Well there’s life in the old dog yet and I wouldn’t bet against us when we play you again.

Ok I get it. You won the Waney Wigan way.
Your mom was a prop making next to no yards. No longer the entertainers but the grinders lol.
Saints throughly deserved the win. I’ve no complaints whatsoever.

Don’t get me wrong your defence is superb. On its day the best defence I’ve ever seen from an English team.
I’ve actually tipped you to win the LLS this so I respect and acknowledge your team’s capabilities.
You acknowledge that your attack was off. It’s been off now for over a season so I’m not sure how you are going to improve it now. Not sure of the possession percentages on GF but I suspect it was huge in Saints favour. How are you going to improve your attack?

We haven’t fired this season except for the Penrith game. Am I worried about that ? Yes a little but last season we proved that we can and do get it right for the big games. Our passing all season as lacked that crispness and your top class defence ensured that we didn’t get that crispness back on GF. Do I think that our attack will get better? Absolutely. Our passing couldn’t get any worse.

If Passi was fit I assume that he would replace Wingfield who played very few minutes and seemed reluctant to take the ball in on a few occasions so a definite plus for you when he plays.
If Bell plays who do you drop? Batchelor, Whitley or Sironen? An excellent impact player replacing 3 excellent backrow players so an improvement but maybe some downsides as well.

Walters would replace Nsemba. He would give us more power and variation plus Nsemba played zero minutes. A definite big plus for us.
Havard would replace Mago. For me Havard is the best young English prop in the game. A massive plus for us particularly as Mago played about 10 minutes.
Cooper would replace Byrne. A better prop especially going forward.

For me with 2 full packs we would be a lot more competitive than we were on GF and it’s where I think that this enable our backs to play more fluently and give your defence more problems.

Enjoy your GF victory as I would if we had won. I’m quietly confident that we can and will turn the tables over the course of the season barring major injuries.
By the way Stu was that you in Sainsbury’s yesterday with the Saints shirt on?

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:33 am  

I’ll try and reply to a few points in one post.

Firstly it wasn’t me in Sainsburys. I don’t wear replica shirts and I’m currently in Spain (got her yesterday and getting pelters off the wife for being on my phone but I love a debate)

I came on here after the game to acknowledge Wigans part in such a great game. They are an outstanding team and the next time we play it will be a genuine 50/50 possibly Wigan being slight favourites. They muscled up superbly and despite all our first half territory we couldn’t score.

I just can’t fathom how it seems to be a given that the next time we play as long as Wigan play better it’s fine.

Who is to say we don’t improve our attack? Welsby and Lomax have been relatively quiet all season but what if one of them fires?

Yes Wigans pack may be better next time with returning players but ours could be too with Passi and Bell.

Bell has interchanged superbly all season with Knowles and given us another dimension.

I just feel there’s a distorted view of Wigan playing better next time and rolling us.

If they do I’ll come on here and hold my hands up.

Edit- Saints fans mention Thompson because from what I’ve been reading I thought Payne Haas had played for Wigan. In reality there were 3 better Saints forwards (IMO) and when I mention salary I’m doing it to refer to output v salary. You’d have change left from Knowles and Walmsley combined compared to Thompson and that for me is important.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:46 am  

Stu M wrote:

I’ll try and reply to a few points in one post.

Firstly it wasn’t me in Sainsburys. I don’t wear replica shirts and I’m currently in Spain (got her yesterday and getting pelters off the wife for being on my phone but I love a debate)

I came on here after the game to acknowledge Wigans part in such a great game. They are an outstanding team and the next time we play it will be a genuine 50/50 possibly Wigan being slight favourites. They muscled up superbly and despite all our first half territory we couldn’t score.

I just can’t fathom how it seems to be a given that the next time we play as long as Wigan play better it’s fine.

Who is to say we don’t improve our attack? Welsby and Lomax have been relatively quiet all season but what if one of them fires?

Yes Wigans pack may be better next time with returning players but ours could be too with Passi and Bell.

Bell has interchanged superbly all season with Knowles and given us another dimension.

I just feel there’s a distorted view of Wigan playing better next time and rolling us.

If they do I’ll come on here and hold my hands up.

Edit- Saints fans mention Thompson because from what I’ve been reading I thought Payne Haas had played for Wigan. In reality there were 3 better Saints forwards (IMO) and when I mention salary I’m doing it to refer to output v salary. You’d have change left from Knowles and Walmsley combined compared to Thompson and that for me is important.

The figures mentioned was 1 million over 4 years. Theres no way those 2 dont command that figure between them.

Anyway enjoy your holiday I know you love your sun.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:49 am  

Stu M wrote:

Reading some of the stuff on here I must have watched a different game on Friday.

What I saw was a Saints team that made 4 breaks compared to Wigan making 0.

What I saw was an admittedly very hard working Thompson make poor post contact metres and dominated in a few collisions. Compare that to Walmsley who scattered defenders for fun and Knowles who was the best player on the pitch. Thompson must earn more on his own than those two put together.

Lees was MOM and we had Matautia playing prop, second row and centre at different times and not looking out of place in any position. Who else can do that??

I love this narrative too that there’s loads of improvement left in Wigan but not Saints. Wardle was going to humiliate Hurrell apparently. What I saw was one running over the top of the other for his try.

Yes the dry tracks will help Wigan but when the wet weather comes again in October then we have the superior pack and the game plan to suit. Let’s not forget that despite the Walters, Cooper and Havard excuses, we have Bell and Passi to come back into that pack. Bell is probably the player of the season in the forwards.

Are we also ignoring we lost Percival and Batchelor for the last 20-25 mins too??

Wigan defended outstandingly well and showed they are a Champion team. Our attack is still off but in mitigation we have had a different 2-5 all season with Makinson, Hurrell and Percival all missing games and Blake finding his feet. Compare that to Wigan having a settled 2-5 all season.

Of course the red card was a factor but there’s nothing to say how the game would’ve finished without it. No one knows.

The fact remains that Wigan didn’t make a single break all game and there’s an argument to say that French lost control anyway so on another day they could’ve been nilled.

I’ve seen a few Wigan fans saying they would go unbeaten all season and Saints are finished. We are gone, no threat anymore.

Well there’s life in the old dog yet and I wouldn’t bet against us when we play you again.

Shock horror a Wigan forum backing there own team, bit salty there stu. I do think your side is on it way out, the niggling in the ruck throwing arm up for pens I’ve always seen that as a side who can’t cope with a game. We picked up at the right time last year and our side is arguably better this season so obviously we feel we will get better. Watching saints stumble through sets in attack the same as last year no I don’t see how it improves. You mention about Walmsley he did very little until we had 12 on the field at the end when he went on that run. I thought Matatiua sironin and lees were great. Always thought Percival was a decent centre but nothing more now the sides on the decline he’s average. Bachelor I do rate him he didn’t stand out but again was injured. If teams attack Bennison they know he can’t defend and same with Hurrell, can’t turn save his life that man so is going to get found out like last GF. I’m more worried about Catalan than I am about Saints. If you don’t like what’s said on here you know what to do