Re: Sony Bill & the New World Order : Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:22 am  

SBW has the attitude of a winner, just about all great players have attitudes that some see as negative.

It did not stop the likes of Hanley, Edwards, Gregory becoming Wigan legends and also cohabitting in the same team even though they did not always see eye to eye.

At the end of the day the players above and SBW have a common attitude, they are winners and they are also professionals. That can often have personality traits that some do not like but ultimately it is part of what makes them great sportsmen.

To say you would not want arguably the most naturally gifted rugby player on the planet playing for Wigan because of his "attitude" is a strange call in my opinion.

Re: Sony Bill & the New World Order : Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:35 am  

Hanley

People may or may not know Ellery was one helluva a ruthless person when it came to money and his contracts, Ellery knew his worth and capitalised on it. SBW has done exactly the same or been advised to

Re: Sony Bill & the New World Order : Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:52 am  

Pie minister wrote:

People may or may not know Ellery was one helluva a ruthless person when it came to money and his contracts, Ellery knew his worth and capitalised on it. SBW has done exactly the same or been advised to

In the modern era, Ellery Hanley would scarcely have played RL. He, and probably others like him - Edwards, Lydon, Bell, Iro, etc - would have gone to RU at an early stage, as the Salary Cap would have prevented Wigan, or anyone else in the game, matching the RU money. Offiah, Davies, Inga etc would never have come in the first place.

But I think that SBW's mercenary traits go a little bit deeper than that. The man has proved by his actions that he will walk out on a club mid-contract if someone pays him enough. Not try to renegotiate a contract, as Barrett did and Lima has done - which would be a slightly more gentlemanly approach, but simply walk out and give a callous V-sign to all the fans who adored him.

My concern is that, regardless of his form and ability, we'd never know from one week to the next whether he was going to turn up.

Re: Sony Bill & the New World Order : Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:58 am  

Cruncher wrote:

In the modern era, Ellery Hanley would scarcely have played RL. He, and probably others like him - Edwards, Lydon, Bell, Iro, etc - would have gone to RU at an early stage, as the Salary Cap would have prevented Wigan, or anyone else in the game, matching the RU money. Offiah, Davies, Inga etc would never have come in the first place.

But I think that SBW's mercenary traits go a little bit deeper than that. The man has proved by his actions that he will walk out on a club mid-contract if someone pays him enough. Not try to renegotiate a contract, as Barrett did and Lima has done - which would be a slightly more gentlemanly approach, but simply walk out and give a callous V-sign to all the fans who adored him.

My concern is that, regardless of his form and ability, we'd never know from one week to the next whether he was going to turn up.

Certainly agree with you re the RU.

Wasnt the reason Ellery walked out of wigan was that the then british version of American football was offering him big money to go and play, yet the arguement with Graham Lowe was just a smokescreen ?

Re: Sony Bill & the New World Order : Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:32 pm  

Cruncher wrote:

In the modern era, Ellery Hanley would scarcely have played RL. He, and probably others like him - Edwards, Lydon, Bell, Iro, etc - would have gone to RU at an early stage, as the Salary Cap would have prevented Wigan, or anyone else in the game, matching the RU money. Offiah, Davies, Inga etc would never have come in the first place.

But I think that SBW's mercenary traits go a little bit deeper than that. The man has proved by his actions that he will walk out on a club mid-contract if someone pays him enough. Not try to renegotiate a contract, as Barrett did and Lima has done - which would be a slightly more gentlemanly approach, but simply walk out and give a callous V-sign to all the fans who adored him.

My concern is that, regardless of his form and ability, we'd never know from one week to the next whether he was going to turn up.

Agree on all points.

The level of teamwork and "togetherness" at Wigan at present is something that we haven't seen for a very long time. That simply cannot be risked for ANY player in my opinion.

Is that so difficult a point to make?

Fortunately I firmly believe SW has the same opinion. If you listen to him when asked about signings, one of the things that he often mentions is whether that player would "fit in".

Re: Sony Bill & the New World Order : Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:35 pm  

XBrettKennyX wrote:

Agree on all points.

The level of teamwork and "togetherness" at Wigan at present is something that we haven't seen for a very long time. That simply cannot be risked for ANY player in my opinion.

Is that so difficult a point to make?

Fortunately I firmly believe SW has the same opinion. If you listen to him when asked about signings, one of the things that he often mentions are whether that player would "fit in".

Spot on,

Much as the idea of SBW in a Wigan shirt appeals, i would rather he was in another shirt being beaten by a Wigan team, or an England/GB team populated by Wigan raised players.

[Pemps]

Re: Sony Bill & the New World Order : Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:35 pm  

Pie minister wrote:

Certainly agree with you re the RU.

Wasnt the reason Ellery walked out of wigan was that the then british version of American football was offering him big money to go and play, yet the arguement with Graham Lowe was just a smokescreen ?

The argument with Graeme Lowe was rumoured to be about the signing of Wally Lewis. Ellery wanted to be top dog.

Re: Sony Bill & the New World Order : Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:57 pm  

XBrettKennyX wrote:

Agree on all points.

The level of teamwork and "togetherness" at Wigan at present is something that we haven't seen for a very long time. That simply cannot be risked for ANY player in my opinion.

Is that so difficult a point to make?

Fortunately I firmly believe SW has the same opinion. If you listen to him when asked about signings, one of the things that he often mentions is whether that player would "fit in".

.....and yet the geatest ever team Wigan have had was full of players who did not see eye to eye with massive ego's.

Most great teams are full of massive ego's and personality clashes but they are usually also ultimate professionals.

It is noted the likes of Goodway was always seen as an individual. Edwards and Gregory always clashing to be top dog, and Hanley spat his dummy regularly.

Do not get confused. Your favourite topic of the salary cap has robbed rugby league of seeing a team littered with massive ego's but in other sports again the best teams are littered with personality clashes and ego's.

As I said earlier it is how a coach manages them that is key and also the fact that regardless of opinions of each other that they are professionals and work towards the ultimate goal of being successful.

I think when Wane talks about fitting in it is more to do with the systems rather than the concept that they are "together" in any other way than wanting to be successful.

Togetherness is something I associate teams that overachieve/are at the lower end of the table but are capable of causing the odd upset eg Wakefield Trinity or Wimbledon in the 80's.

Give me a team of players that do not get along but are ultimate professionals every time.

Re: Sony Bill & the New World Order : Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:07 pm  

jonh wrote:

.....and yet the geatest ever team Wigan have had was full of players who did not see eye to eye with massive ego's.

Most great teams are full of massive ego's and personality clashes but they are usually also ultimate professionals.

It is noted the likes of Goodway was always seen as an individual. Edwards and Gregory always clashing to be top dog, and Hanley spat his dummy regularly.

Do not get confused. Your favourite topic of the salary cap has robbed rugby league of seeing a team littered with massive ego's but in other sports again the best teams are littered with personality clashes and ego's.

As I said earlier it is how a coach manages them that is key and also the fact that regardless of opinions of each other that they are professionals and work towards the ultimate goal of being successful.

I think when Wane talks about fitting in it is more to do with the systems rather than the concept that they are "together" in any other way than wanting to be successful.

Togetherness is something I associate teams that overachieve/are at the lower end of the table but are capable of causing the odd upset eg Wakefield Trinity or Wimbledon in the 80's.

Give me a team of players that do not get along but are ultimate professionals every time.

You are missing the point.

The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Re: Sony Bill & the New World Order : Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:29 pm  

XBrettKennyX wrote:

You are missing the point.

The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

I agree hence I do not think it would be unreasonable to sign a player who is one of the most talented players of his generation because of speculation about his personality.