Re: Marquee Player Rule : Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:53 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

Mrs Thatcher is smiling in her grave right now at your views and how you express them. Are you a Blue Meanie from Pepperland?

The problem with your view is that putting the 'have-nots' in their place, as you so charmingly put it, leads to a competition just like the Scottish Premier League. Let the market take over and it inevitably leads to monopoly. (Anyone fancy a bet on who will win the SPL next year? Is there any point in watching?)

That's fine if Wigan are in the Celtic role, but what if we end up like Rangers with Saints in the Celtic role?

The good thing about the salary cap is that the league is genuinely competitive. Hull KR have beaten both Saints and Wigan this season. Are you really interested in watching Rugby League dominated by just a few teams or are you interested in watching games that are competitive (which most - though not all - are)?

Even under the present system there are really only 4 potential winners (even if you count Wire!!!) - so it's not as though we are being hampered that much by the 'cap in hand' brigade. But at least we have an interesting competition, with the top 3 losing 14 games - about 30%- between them already, often to the 'bottom feeder clubs'

I loved watching us in the 80/90s, especially as I remember us in the second division, but in truth only Widnes really managed a sustained challenge. I reckon the game is far more enjoyable now, though I guess others will disagree.

Peace and Love!

We are only talking about one player. Its not like we can just secure signings of the Harlem Globetrotters.

If anything, we will now have the ability to use the exception to play for a big player, without (necessarily) sacrificing the wages of junior players or other squad members. which is what happens under the current (previous?) system

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:07 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

Mrs Thatcher is smiling in her grave right now at your views and how you express them. Are you a Blue Meanie from Pepperland?

The problem with your view is that putting the 'have-nots' in their place, as you so charmingly put it, leads to a competition just like the Scottish Premier League. Let the market take over and it inevitably leads to monopoly. (Anyone fancy a bet on who will win the SPL next year? Is there any point in watching?)

That's fine if Wigan are in the Celtic role, but what if we end up like Rangers with Saints in the Celtic role?

The good thing about the salary cap is that the league is genuinely competitive. Hull KR have beaten both Saints and Wigan this season. Are you really interested in watching Rugby League dominated by just a few teams or are you interested in watching games that are competitive (which most - though not all - are)?

Even under the present system there are really only 4 potential winners (even if you count Wire!!!) - so it's not as though we are being hampered that much by the 'cap in hand' brigade. But at least we have an interesting competition, with the top 3 losing 14 games - about 30%- between them already, often to the 'bottom feeder clubs'

I loved watching us in the 80/90s, especially as I remember us in the second division, but in truth only Widnes really managed a sustained challenge. I reckon the game is far more enjoyable now, though I guess others will disagree.

Peace and Love!

The problem is that dumbing us all down to the level of the lowest clubs is no solution if those lowest clubs aren't the only ones we're competing with. Unlike a few years ago, we're now in it with the RU and the NRL. Okay, competing at that level might be a bit of a lost cause, but as far as I can see their persistent poaching of our best talent has been a game-changer in the last few tears, and we need to try and respond. I'd also argue that all through the salary cap era, the game has continued to be dominated by a handful of clubs. It bewilders me that pro-cappers always argue as if this isn't the case.

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:18 am  

Whilst agreeing in principle with the ruling I would also have liked some of the tv money be ring fenced to ensure the return of U23 / reserve grade rugby. Catalan should be in that structure, but at present aren't.
At the Wigan v Catalan academy friendly game at Orrell I was speaking to Laurent Frayssinous.
He told me Catalan could not be admitted into the U19 academy competition because the majority of the Superleague clubs were not prepared to travel to France at that level, so most of the young French players were playing in the lower leagues and that their season ended in early May. As far as I'm aware only Leeds and Wigan have played in France, but I think Saints, Wigan and Leeds have hosted Catalan over here.

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:28 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

Mrs Thatcher is smiling in her grave right now at your views and how you express them. Are you a Blue Meanie from Pepperland?

The problem with your view is that putting the 'have-nots' in their place, as you so charmingly put it, leads to a competition just like the Scottish Premier League. Let the market take over and it inevitably leads to monopoly. (Anyone fancy a bet on who will win the SPL next year? Is there any point in watching?)

That's fine if Wigan are in the Celtic role, but what if we end up like Rangers with Saints in the Celtic role?

The good thing about the salary cap is that the league is genuinely competitive. Hull KR have beaten both Saints and Wigan this season. Are you really interested in watching Rugby League dominated by just a few teams or are you interested in watching games that are competitive (which most - though not all - are)?

Even under the present system there are really only 4 potential winners (even if you count Wire!!!) - so it's not as though we are being hampered that much by the 'cap in hand' brigade. But at least we have an interesting competition, with the top 3 losing 14 games - about 30%- between them already, often to the 'bottom feeder clubs'

I loved watching us in the 80/90s, especially as I remember us in the second division, but in truth only Widnes really managed a sustained challenge. I reckon the game is far more enjoyable now, though I guess others will disagree.

Peace and Love!

Just when we all thought it was safe to come out again the protector of the underclass is back.

ATEOTD it comes down to aspiration. If you want to shoot for the stars, and have the means to do it, then what's wrong with that?

I want to see a Wigan team that's crammed full of the best talent in the world. I want to see us go over to Aus as a force to be reckoned with. I want to see a Wigan side that's considered good enough to play games vs international touring sides. In short I want us to be the pinnacle of rugby in both codes.

Who are Wakey, Cas or you to say it's wrong to want that? No one should stop another for thinking big. If you want to think parochial then please feel free just don't keep the rest down there with you.

You can shout till you are blue in the face about a competitive league but it's just a fantasy based upon season in, season out reduction in the on the field product. Every sport and every league, including ours, has its big teams who generally clean up or share honours. Even in singles sports like Golf, Tennis, Snooker etc the major titles are shared between the few.

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:43 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Just when we all thought it was safe to come out again the protector of the underclass is back.

ATEOTD it comes down to aspiration. If you want to shoot for the stars, and have the means to do it, then what's wrong with that?

I want to see a Wigan team that's crammed full of the best talent in the world. I want to see us go over to Aus as a force to be reckoned with. I want to see a Wigan side that's considered good enough to play games vs international touring sides. In short I want us to be the pinnacle of rugby in both codes.

Who are Wakey, Cas or you to say it's wrong to want that? No one should stop another for thinking big. If you want to think parochial then please feel free just don't keep the rest down there with you.

You can shout till you are blue in the face about a competitive league but it's just a fantasy based upon season in, season out reduction in the on the field product. Every sport and every league, including ours, has its big teams who generally clean up or share honours. Even in singles sports like Golf, Tennis, Snooker etc the major titles are shared between the few.

I suppose we just fundamentally disagree. I don't think it is ALL about aspiration at all, although that is certainly part of it.

I want Wigan to be the best in a competitive league where everyone has the chance to win it. How much more satisfying is that?

I want to enjoy watching Rugby League when the outcome is in doubt. If you want a monopoly as in the SPL or a duopoly as in Spain then I would suggest you would get pretty sick of it pretty quickly. One of the reasons I no longer watch professional football is that it is boring. The EPL pretty much mirrors what teams spend on transfers and wages. So the rich get richer as the Champions League admits only the most wealthy 4 or 5.

Obliterating the competition because you have more money and power than them is against genuine sporting principles.

Actually I'm not really against this slight change in the cap - it was your objectionable tone that prompted me to post.

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:11 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

I suppose we just fundamentally disagree. I don't think it is ALL about aspiration at all, although that is certainly part of it.

I want Wigan to be the best in a competitive league where everyone has the chance to win it. How much more satisfying is that?

But wouldn't it be even more satisfying if that situation was achieved by ALL clubs attempting to raise their game?

I moved towards supporting the salary cap after a couple of years, but since the NRL started cherry-picking as well as RU - and apparently the one they're lining up after Burgess is Bateman - I've been very worried that we're hamstringing ourselves with it.

I feel it's too easy for the lower-end clubs to just bask in the comfort zone of having upper-end clubs restricted by tight regulations. How does that give them any impetus to improve?

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:13 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

Mrs Thatcher is smiling in her grave right now at your views and how you express them. Are you a Blue Meanie from Pepperland?

The problem with your view is that putting the 'have-nots' in their place, as you so charmingly put it, leads to a competition just like the Scottish Premier League. Let the market take over and it inevitably leads to monopoly. (Anyone fancy a bet on who will win the SPL next year? Is there any point in watching?)

That's fine if Wigan are in the Celtic role, but what if we end up like Rangers with Saints in the Celtic role?

The good thing about the salary cap is that the league is genuinely competitive. Hull KR have beaten both Saints and Wigan this season. Are you really interested in watching Rugby League dominated by just a few teams or are you interested in watching games that are competitive (which most - though not all - are)?

Even under the present system there are really only 4 potential winners (even if you count Wire!!!) - so it's not as though we are being hampered that much by the 'cap in hand' brigade. But at least we have an interesting competition, with the top 3 losing 14 games - about 30%- between them already, often to the 'bottom feeder clubs'

I loved watching us in the 80/90s, especially as I remember us in the second division, but in truth only Widnes really managed a sustained challenge. I reckon the game is far more enjoyable now, though I guess others will disagree.

Peace and Love!

If it was up to you we'd all be eating the proverbial scraps off the floor whilst every other sport progresses financially. Just so we can protect a couple of clubs that can barely generate income of any kind. GTF.

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:46 pm  

Bluenosewarrior wrote:

If it was up to you we'd all be eating the proverbial scraps off the floor whilst every other sport progresses financially. Just so we can protect a couple of clubs that can barely generate income of any kind. GTF.

Wrong. I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion from reading my posts. Why would I be against Super League generating money?

Sports can progress financially whilst still having ALL teams competitive. There are many examples of this - my favourite being Major League Baseball with 20 different winners since 1979 - and that in the land of the free as well. A chain is only as strong as its' weakest link my friend.

Be careful not to stereotype my views just because I would put the health of the overall game ahead of partisan interests.

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:50 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

Wrong. I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion from reading my posts. Why would I be against Super League generating money?

Sports can progress financially whilst still having ALL teams competitive. There are many examples of this - my favourite being Major League Baseball with 20 different winners since 1979 - and that in the land of the free as well. A chain is only as strong as its' weakest link my friend.

Be careful not to stereotype my views just because I would put the health of the overall game ahead of partisan interests.

The problem with your MLB comparison is the amount of people that live in the USA and love the sport. We simply don't have those kind of numbers here. I understand your point of view, but I have to disagree. We will only attract more fans when we can put on show some of the best players in the world.

Take us for example, it is no coincidence that our attendances have decreased ever since Sam left. At the end of the day, fans want to see the best players.

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:48 pm  

Who on earth is SW looking at in Canada RU or American Poseball? Have I missed yet another memo? Or is he blowing smoke? (http://tinyurl.com/ph9vybw)

Who on earth is SW looking at in Canada RU or American Poseball? Have I missed yet another memo? Or is he blowing smoke? (http://tinyurl.com/ph9vybw)