Re: Bang Average : Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:09 am  

I think Wigan tried to pinch a couple of top props with Ellis/Mago last season, going with the Field/French model of signing players on the fringes of NRL first teams, who they believe have talent but for whatever reason aren’t getting regular games. Unfortunately I don’t think it’s worked. Makes no mistake, they were fringe NRL/reserve grade props but there had to be a reason for that and I think we’ve seen it here.

It’s different with Field/French and backs in general. The NRL want backs to be 6ft plus and 15 stones or more and you don’t need to be that over here. They’ve been exceptional signings and I think there’s more where they came from. It looks a tougher task to nab a cheap forward and I think we’ll have to move away from that strategy, certainly in terms of every NRL forward signing we make. You can get guys like Sironen, Matautia, Vaughan etc, who do play first grade on a regular basis and presumably don’t cost the earth. A mixture of more established forwards and fringe first teamers would feel a better balance.

Re: Bang Average : Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:29 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

I think Wigan tried to pinch a couple of top props with Ellis/Mago last season, going with the Field/French model of signing players on the fringes of NRL first teams, who they believe have talent but for whatever reason aren’t getting regular games. Unfortunately I don’t think it’s worked. Makes no mistake, they were fringe NRL/reserve grade props but there had to be a reason for that and I think we’ve seen it here.

Exactly, and then bringing in Cooper.

Re: Bang Average : Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:35 am  

Egg Chasing wrote:

We did that in 2020 but it didn't work out.
We did that in 2022 but it didn't work out.
We've done that in 2023 with the same set as 2022, time will tell.

As JonH says time and time again though, we don't use our props in the traditional sense so their stats won't necessarily match those of other sides. We have made more average yards per carry as a team than Warrington have. If we can cut out the errors and have more ball then we'll see all of our go forward stats improve. "Bang average" is the knee jerk reaction of all knee jerk reactions.

That's not true tho. I've bit my lip to the oracle that is JonH, but it's absolute BS.

We talk about carrying on the "Wane style". Well anyone who watched the world cup will have seen our props running riot. Burgess was probably the best front rower of the tournament. Has Wane changed his style, or did he finally have access to proper front rowers who can do both? Whichever of these two is true it doesn't paint a pretty picture. 1. We're either carrying on with an old style, or 2. Our recruitment isn't good enough.

For me it's clearly option 2. Truthfully ask yourself this - Are we saying that if Wigan had a JWH, Burgess or Walmsley, we'd be telling them to not make yards and hit the ground early?

Bitter pill to swallow as a fan, but our recruitment in the forwards isn't good enough. I can probably name you 10 failures Vs not many successes on the recruitment front. How can it be that hard? Other teams seem to find gems each year, we get Mago, Singleton, Mitch f-ing Clarke or a new deal for Clubb.

Re: Bang Average : Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:41 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

That's not true tho. I've bit my lip to the oracle that is JonH, but it's absolute BS.

We talk about carrying on the "Wane style". Well anyone who watched the world cup will have seen our props running riot. Burgess was probably the best front rower of the tournament. Has Wane changed his style, or did he finally have access to proper front rowers who can do both? Whichever of these two is true it doesn't paint a pretty picture. 1. We're either carrying on with an old style, or 2. Our recruitment isn't good enough.

For me it's clearly option 2. Truthfully ask yourself this - Are we saying that if Wigan had a JWH, Burgess or Walmsley, we'd be telling them to not make yards and hit the ground early?

Bitter pill to swallow as a fan, but our recruitment in the forwards isn't good enough. I can probably name you 10 failures Vs not many successes on the recruitment front. How can it be that hard? Other teams seem to find gems each year, we get Mago, Singleton, Mitch f-ing Clarke or a new deal for Clubb.

It probably is option 2 and if we had JWH, Burgess or Walmsley we may change our style. We don't have those players so we haven't changed our style. Play to your strengths as they say.

Last week, Toby King had the most carries, followed by Marshall, followed by Faz. Pretty obvious from that how we played the game.

Re: Bang Average : Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:25 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

It probably is option 2 and if we had JWH, Burgess or Walmsley we may change our style. We don't have those players so we haven't changed our style. Play to your strengths as they say.

Last week, Toby King had the most carries, followed by Marshall, followed by Faz. Pretty obvious from that how we played the game.

Oh 100% play to your strengths & it has worked/been successful.

You've touched on the real problem however and it's the long term strategy. It swaps from being playing to your strengths, to being a conscious effort not to change things. A perfect example would be to replace Singo at the end of the season. If we don't, then it's a style preference instead of making do with what we've got.

FWIW, a lot of teams line up like us. Saints with Makinson Percival look for those early carries. Penrith with To'o do the same + Liam Martin makes big yards. They've also got props that make big yards too - Walmsley being the best in SL and Fisher-Harris probably being the prominent prop in the game.

We need to improve our front row go forward. Making excuses for Singleton being cr@p isn't helping us.

Re: Bang Average : Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:40 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

We need to improve our front row go forward. Making excuses for Singleton being cr@p isn't helping us.

We absolutely do, but given how we currently play we can't look to compare stats with forwards from sides that don't play the same way.

I'd sooner look at our stats as a team than try and compare certain areas. As I've said, I'm more concerned at the error rate at the moment as opposed to who is and isn't making yards.

Re: Bang Average : Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:40 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

We absolutely do, but given how we currently play we can't look to compare stats with forwards from sides that don't play the same way.

I'd sooner look at our stats as a team than try and compare certain areas. As I've said, I'm more concerned at the error rate at the moment as opposed to who is and isn't making yards.

Agreed, error rate and penalty count are huge issues for us currently and should be priority for the team and coaching staff.

I think Salford could really show us up if they are on point and we continue more of the same. Consistantly out own worst enemy and a team with the attacking potential of Salford could be the one to punish us for it.

Re: Bang Average : Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:02 pm  

Noticed during the Eels Panthers came, Ennis said after the first 10 minutes or so Fisher Harris and Leota only had 1 carry between them for the panthers.

The outside backs did the majority of the carries.

Re: Bang Average : Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:20 pm  

NSW wrote:

Noticed during the Eels Panthers came, Ennis said after the first 10 minutes or so Fisher Harris and Leota only had 1 carry between them for the panthers.

The outside backs did the majority of the carries.

Rubbish Wigan

Re: Bang Average : Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:44 pm  

NSW wrote:

Noticed during the Eels Panthers came, Ennis said after the first 10 minutes or so Fisher Harris and Leota only had 1 carry between them for the panthers.

The outside backs did the majority of the carries.

Was just going to say the same; I just watched the game. But Penrith always do this, their outside backs work overtime every week.