Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:02 pm  

Zig wrote:

Saddened's partial view of the game:

As for England, I found myself not wanting them to win. Wane is such a unlikeable character and the team he's built is an absolute shambles. It's well coached, I'll give him that, the defense was solid and they did do enough to win. But the team selection is ridiculous, some players in there that have absolutely no right to be selected. Liam Farrell is one that stands out. He is so far passed it that it's ridiculous he's playing Super League, let alone being selected in the 17 for England. I've got tons of respect for him and he's been a Super League great, but he looks ill, he looks emaciated and he'd have been torn apart. Giving him 30 seconds prevented that, but I'm not sure what his 1 carry, 0 metres and 0 tackles stint did exactly, other than hand him a cap on his career record? I really hope that wasn't what that was about, but I suspect it was. Harry Smith is a player I've criticised a lot as he's such a limited player generally. He has absolutely no threat as an individual, but his kicking game was exceptional and probably the difference between the sides. His decision making and general direction of the play was great too and he was definitely the best of the 1,6,7. Clark again with another head scratching performance. I really don't know what England see in him, or why Saints decided it was a good idea to sign him. And then they brought Walker on and he's even worse. There are better hookers playing amateur level than him.

Now I am not saying that he is anti Wigan or Wire. I think he needs to be promoted to be Woolf's assistant

You've made 2 mistakes
1, going over there
2, trying to form any logic, sense from anything any of them, particularly that mon writes is pointless, as there's bias, and absolute hatred blinding anything someone sees, the majority on there fit into the latter

The rush to find anything to criticise Wane over is laughable, he's got 2 wins, missing 6/7 of his best players at the start of a new world cup cycle, and make that 8/9 players after Makinson and Knowles pull out with injury.
Hes given chances to youngsters in Lewis/Newman/Ashton/Smith/walker and players like Johnstone/king with Dupree in the squad also (plus Smithies and Thewlis coming in I believe next test).

He gets accused of Wigan bias and yet there's 8 who have Wigan links at most, 3 just because they were born in Wigan and have never played for Wigan, 2 who left in not the best circumstances and 1 who was on loan because his parent club didn't want him (or its fans or Saints fans as were talking about them, yet he's been pretty good in both games).
That leaves 2 players (Farrell and Smith) and all nob head can do is criticise 1 of them laughably and get a sly dig in on Smith who, BTW, has been the most influential and IMO best player over the 2 games.

Woolf had a whinge about the pitch
Woolf had a whinge about the "unevenness" of the ruck speed (which could be interpreted a number of different ways, and I know what I think he was trying do I.e. try and get an advantage in the next test, because he can imply all he wants about the ruck speed and that his players wanted it quicker and ours didn't etc. But the the truth is they blowing out their backsides 2nd half).
His captain gave some kind of statement basically giving no credit to the winners.

Don't be surprised if Wane uses that as motivation
Woolf should be more worried that after the excuses of the 1st test his team were WORSE this week
Theyve been garbage, they've tried bully our pack and got nowhere, good on our lads, give our lads some credit

Yet England fans of their respective team can't wait to pile in on Wane because of their respective bias for their team amongst other reasons.

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:08 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Sore loser? I suggest you read his comments back again from yesterday. Admitted England were much the better side and maturely refused to be drawn into Wane’s obsession with him with his childish comments.

After the first game he said the ruck was slow- a comment lots of SL coaches have made at various times. He also said the pitch was poor- it was.

At no point has he accused England of anything disrespectful and yet he easily could’ve made a point of Wane’s programme notes from the first game.

To describe a coach as “done ok” after winning x3 GF’s in a row, a CC and a LLS was pathetic.

There’s only one coach looking like an idiot at the end of this series regardless of results and it’s not Woolf.

It comes to something when Wigan fans are disappointed in him.

Disappointed in his treatment of Liam Farrell personally but no issue with his comments on Woolf. I get it’s a weird position for Saints fans having a legendary Saints coach in charge of the opposition and having your current coach assisting him and he’ll be given your benefit of the doubt over Wane but he’s always been a moaner. He is a coach that pushes every rule to its limits and did that with great success at Saints but you can’t come out and talk about the oppositions tactics when your of that ilk.

I think there’s a little bit of pent up frustration coming out of Wane regards how Woolf did his very best to make international breaks a rest weekend for Saints players in the last few seasons. He held his tongue on it and shocked me actually in how he managed to do that at the time and he’s now decided to get stuck in to him in a different way, while using it as motivation for his own players.

I expect England will wrap up the series 3-0 and the England coach certainly won’t look like an idiot on the back of that. It’ll be the man making excuses, whose players have said they’re beating themselves and who’ve admitted now knowing who some of the England players are who will look a bit silly.

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:10 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

You've made 2 mistakes
1, going over there
2, trying to form any logic, sense from anything any of them, particularly that mon writes is pointless, as there's bias, and absolute hatred blinding anything someone sees, the majority on there fit into the latter

The rush to find anything to criticise Wane over is laughable, he's got 2 wins, missing 6/7 of his best players at the start of a new world cup cycle, and make that 8/9 players after Makinson and Knowles pull out with injury.
Hes given chances to youngsters in Lewis/Newman/Ashton/Smith/walker and players like Johnstone/king with Dupree in the squad also (plus Smithies and Thewlis coming in I believe next test).

He gets accused of Wigan bias and yet there's 8 who have Wigan links at most, 3 just because they were born in Wigan and have never played for Wigan, 2 who left in not the best circumstances and 1 who was on loan because his parent club didn't want him (or its fans or Saints fans as were talking about them, yet he's been pretty good in both games).
That leaves 2 players (Farrell and Smith) and all nob head can do is criticise 1 of them laughably and get a sly dig in on Smith who, BTW, has been the most influential and IMO best player over the 2 games.

Woolf had a whinge about the pitch
Woolf had a whinge about the "unevenness" of the ruck speed (which could be interpreted a number of different ways, and I know what I think he was trying do I.e. try and get an advantage in the next test, because he can imply all he wants about the ruck speed and that his players wanted it quicker and ours didn't etc. But the the truth is they blowing out their backsides 2nd half).
His captain gave some kind of statement basically giving no credit to the winners.

Don't be surprised if Wane uses that as motivation
Woolf should be more worried that after the excuses of the 1st test his team were WORSE this week
Theyve been garbage, they've tried bully our pack and got nowhere, good on our lads, give our lads some credit

Yet England fans of their respective team can't wait to pile in on Wane because of their respective bias for their team amongst other reasons.

Anyone would think he had jumped ship to our opposition! What sort of reaction would that get.

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:23 pm  

I’ve no issues with Wane’s ability as a coach. We’ve not been great to watch however I’m not daft enough to realise we are missing Williams, Young, Farnworth and a potentially fully fit Thompson.

I’ve also commented on here that I don’t agree with Wellens working with Tonga and I backed Wane about his comments over that.

What I do take exception to is his arrogance in describing Woolf as “done ok” at Saints which sounds like a real childish thing to say to be honest.

He’s also massively exaggerated Woolfs comments from Week 1 and tried to create a siege mentality when to be fair what he said wasn’t extraordinary.

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:55 pm  

Stu M wrote:

I’ve no issues with Wane’s ability as a coach. We’ve not been great to watch however I’m not daft enough to realise we are missing Williams, Young, Farnworth and a potentially fully fit Thompson.

I’ve also commented on here that I don’t agree with Wellens working with Tonga and I backed Wane about his comments over that.

What I do take exception to is his arrogance in describing Woolf as “done ok” at Saints which sounds like a real childish thing to say to be honest.

He’s also massively exaggerated Woolfs comments from Week 1 and tried to create a siege mentality when to be fair what he said wasn’t extraordinary.

Why shouldn’t he try and create a siege mentality? He’s trying to win a series and will look to use any tools he can to achieve that. Woolf didn’t say anything out of the ordinary by his standards but if Wane thinks he can find an angle to give his side an edge, he’s going to do that. I think this battle with Woolf is pretty important to Wane. He’s never come out and said it but I’m pretty sure he’d have been seething with Woolf’s attitude to his Saints players turning out in mid season games (he moaned publicly about the workload of his players as well) and now is his time to try and get one over Woolf (and he is doing).

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Sun Oct 29, 2023 6:01 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Why shouldn’t he try and create a siege mentality? He’s trying to win a series and will look to use any tools he can to achieve that. Woolf didn’t say anything out of the ordinary by his standards but if Wane thinks he can find an angle to give his side an edge, he’s going to do that. I think this battle with Woolf is pretty important to Wane. He’s never come out and said it but I’m pretty sure he’d have been seething with Woolf’s attitude to his Saints players turning out in mid season games (he moaned publicly about the workload of his players as well) and now is his time to try and get one over Woolf (and he is doing).

Come on, he’s getting one over him playing a series in England with English crowds and English conditions.

Play this series in Aus/NZ on a dry track and with Fifita and Tamalolu playing (probably spelt that wrong) and it could easily be a different story.

In a couple of years time Woolf will be an NRL Head coach, something Wane has coveted for a while so let’s not try and play Billy big bollox

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:14 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Come on, he’s getting one over him playing a series in England with English crowds and English conditions.

Play this series in Aus/NZ on a dry track and with Fifita and Tamalolu playing (probably spelt that wrong) and it could easily be a different story.

In a couple of years time Woolf will be an NRL Head coach, something Wane has coveted for a while so let’s not try and play Billy big bollox

I think Tonga are pretty poor. Zero sparkle irrespective of conditions. I suspect coached to within an inch of their lives.
Very little pace if any and think that they are Billy big bollox. A team of little if any heart. A motivated team goes into the lions den and attacks not whimpers. A poor team coached poorly.
We haven’t been brilliant but totally out muscled the muscle men. Not an instinctive player in squad. If they had one Woolf wouldn’t pick him.
If Woolf gets a gig I’d be surprised but maybe Dolphins are are a bit lazy in their recruitment. His time has been and gone.
Hope we shove 30:points up them on a firmer pitch at Headingly.

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:23 pm  

Zig wrote:

Saddened's partial view of the game:

As for England, I found myself not wanting them to win. Wane is such a unlikeable character and the team he's built is an absolute shambles. It's well coached, I'll give him that, the defense was solid and they did do enough to win. But the team selection is ridiculous, some players in there that have absolutely no right to be selected. Liam Farrell is one that stands out. He is so far passed it that it's ridiculous he's playing Super League, let alone being selected in the 17 for England. I've got tons of respect for him and he's been a Super League great, but he looks ill, he looks emaciated and he'd have been torn apart. Giving him 30 seconds prevented that, but I'm not sure what his 1 carry, 0 metres and 0 tackles stint did exactly, other than hand him a cap on his career record? I really hope that wasn't what that was about, but I suspect it was. Harry Smith is a player I've criticised a lot as he's such a limited player generally. He has absolutely no threat as an individual, but his kicking game was exceptional and probably the difference between the sides. His decision making and general direction of the play was great too and he was definitely the best of the 1,6,7. Clark again with another head scratching performance. I really don't know what England see in him, or why Saints decided it was a good idea to sign him. And then they brought Walker on and he's even worse. There are better hookers playing amateur level than him.

Now I am not saying that he is anti Wigan or Wire. I think he needs to be promoted to be Woolf's assistant

He's a 2nd rate Jean/LeBron/Rob and thats saying something

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:49 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Come on, he’s getting one over him playing a series in England with English crowds and English conditions.

Play this series in Aus/NZ on a dry track and with Fifita and Tamalolu playing (probably spelt that wrong) and it could easily be a different story.

In a couple of years time Woolf will be an NRL Head coach, something Wane has coveted for a while so let’s not try and play Billy big bollox

Im scratching my head as to why you are having a pop at the England coach (whose team, I assume, you support) and his tactics of trying to win a test series. Im guessing you would have no problem with said tactics if the coach(es) of the opposition had no connection to the glorious St Helens team???

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:06 pm  

[Gareth] wrote:

Im scratching my head as to why you are having a pop at the England coach (whose team, I assume, you support) and his tactics of trying to win a test series. Im guessing you would have no problem with said tactics if the coach(es) of the opposition had no connection to the glorious St Helens team???

I’m not sure he’s the most appropriate coach to get the best out of that England team. He’ll always have them playing tough but I’m not sure he has the smarts to come up with a game plan to beat Australia.

Of course I support England. I just feel he’s making it too personal with Woolf. I know they don’t get on and I know what he’s said in private about Woolf so this has probably been a powderkeg waiting to happen.

For what it’s worth I’d love to see Peet given a go with England. He’s a breath of fresh air and I think he’d get the best out of the talented players we have. I’m not sure Wane will