Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:46 am  

LewCharnock wrote:

Saints lost to a Salford team who were missing 10+ players and were only able to name a 18-man squad, with their 18th man jabbed up to complete the warm up. Which goes to show, playing Top Trumps doesn't really work when discussing rugby league. You could argue that Wakefield and Toulouse will be the toughest games possibly in the next two games due to their own situations and desperation?

What I think we can agree on is that Wigan look very good and a lot more patient in the last few games, still scoring a lot of points whilst improving their defence. On the other hand, Saints look pretty fatigued to me and blunt in attack. This could all change in around a month's time though when the trophy is handed out.

I agree. Things could look very different, we should have all our players back bar Dodd and Grace in the next few weeks and if the GF (if we get there) is played in wind and rain then we have the pack and big game experience to grind out a result. We have fallen foul of this a few times over the years on wet nights where Sinfield has kicked us to death, Leeds have completed their sets and forced errors.

In relation to our Salford defeat it was a shocker. I was only saying on here that we are never outworked and if we lose it is only by a couple of points or so but Salford hammered us. We had mitigation for the Wakefield narrow win as 4 players had Covid all week, didn't train and were only cleared to play the night before however we have been poor for a while now and do look fatigued I agree.

Its all about being fresh and in form in the last couple of weeks though.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:49 am  

Stu M wrote:

Its self-explanatory I would've thought. I have named 7 games where you played 2 decent teams and lost both. You now have 2 easy games coming up. Its hard to judge just how good you are at the moment because of this.

You're massively oversimplifying there Stu. You're randomly choosing 7 games that seemingly fit your agenda. Go back further and we beat you in the semi. Why are you only including those 7 games? Even when only considering those 7 we have had 1 bad game. We were the better side at magic apart from having a man sent off which allowed you to pinch a win you didn't really deserve.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:53 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

You're massively oversimplifying there Stu. You're randomly choosing 7 games that seemingly fit your agenda. Go back further and we beat you in the semi. Why are you only including those 7 games? Even when only considering those 7 we have had 1 bad game. We were the better side at magic apart from having a man sent off which allowed you to pinch a win you didn't really deserve.

Er no. I'm choosing the last 7 games which is usually what happens as a form guide, the most recent games are picked.

If I went back further I could choose the first few games where we were pretty untouchable including Good Friday.

And you were the better team at Magic? Really? Ok.

I had forgotten that teams can't win with 12 men. Although we did pretty recently..

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:05 am  

Stu M wrote:

Er no. I'm choosing the last 7 games which is usually what happens as a form guide, the most recent games are picked.

If I went back further I could choose the first few games where we were pretty untouchable including Good Friday.

And you were the better team at Magic? Really? Ok.

I had forgotten that teams can't win with 12 men. Although we did pretty recently..

Well if we're only talking about recent games then your done as we can't look beyond them to see that you're potentially better than your recent form. Strangely, when it comes to Saints, you're not operating by the same rules and are using earlier form to say how good you could be in a month's time with literally no evidence that this will happen. Yet when it comes to Wigan, only recent games count so we "can't say how good they are" (sic). Have a word with yourself mate.

Yes, we were the better team at magic until we had a man sent off. Apart from an early penalty, you were never in front in that game. The scoreboard doesn't lie.

Of course, 1 team winning with 12 against a toothless opponent (you still need to clarify this point if you want to go back there Stu) means ALL teams should win, regardless of any other circumstances or who the opposition are. Yeah, that makes perfect sense...

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:13 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

Well if we're only talking about recent games then your done as we can't look beyond them to see that you're potentially better than your recent form. Strangely, when it comes to Saints, you're not operating by the same rules and are using earlier form to say how good you could be in a month's time with literally no evidence that this will happen. Yet when it comes to Wigan, only recent games count so we "can't say how good they are" (sic). Have a word with yourself mate.

Yes, we were the better team at magic until we had a man sent off. Apart from an early penalty, you were never in front in that game. The scoreboard doesn't lie.

Of course, 1 team winning with 12 against a toothless opponent (you still need to clarify this point if you want to go back there Stu) means ALL teams should win, regardless of any other circumstances or who the opposition are. Yeah, that makes perfect sense...

I'm not saying we definitely will come back to form I'm saying we "could" given we have players coming back from injury. I have alluded to the fact that Wigan are the form team at the moment and would probably start favourites if the GF was next week (I have literally said that this morning on this very thread)

Agree to disagree on Magic, your own coach even admitted we were the better team and didn't use the 12 men as an excuse.

I'm also not saying that all teams should win with 12 men, its just a convenient excuse. You only had 12 men for literally 12 mins or so and even took the lead during this time.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:55 am  

Stu M wrote:

Its self-explanatory I would've thought. I have named 7 games where you played 2 decent teams and lost both. You now have 2 easy games coming up. Its hard to judge just how good you are at the moment because of this.

I hadn’t seen your reply to Jukesays which explained your point better. I’ve seen Saints fans questioning our fixture list on social media recently, as though it’s been set up to give us some sort of advantage. We can only beat what is put in front of us as pointed out but I agree, we’re tough to judge at the minute. Leeds are in a real purple patch but I think we hugely underestimated them. Other than that we’ve been ok.

Us, like Saints, will switch back on when needed, I’m absolutely sure of that. I know disruption to Saints team via injuries and suspensions has been made a real meal of but it is impacting you but we’re not exactly on easy street ourselves. Wire gave that game everything for 60 minutes on Friday, they’ve been absolutely fine in games for an hour or so recently and have been getting over most teams in that spell but we got home pretty well in the end and that’s minus Thornley, Leuluai, Powell, O’Neill, Bateman, Farrell and Havard. That’s 6 first choice players and then the back up hooker, to the hooker who was missing. We don’t want violins over here, it’s part and parcel of the sport and it’s standard for us and many other teams to be missing players, so we crack on but obviously it helps nobody.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:01 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I hadn’t seen your reply to Jukesays which explained your point better. I’ve seen Saints fans questioning our fixture list on social media recently, as though it’s been set up to give us some sort of advantage. We can only beat what is put in front of us as pointed out but I agree, we’re tough to judge at the minute. Leeds are in a real purple patch but I think we hugely underestimated them. Other than that we’ve been ok.

Us, like Saints, will switch back on when needed, I’m absolutely sure of that. I know disruption to Saints team via injuries and suspensions has been made a real meal of but it is impacting you but we’re not exactly on easy street ourselves. Wire gave that game everything for 60 minutes on Friday, they’ve been absolutely fine in games for an hour or so recently and have been getting over most teams in that spell but we got home pretty well in the end and that’s minus Thornley, Leuluai, Powell, O’Neill, Bateman, Farrell and Havard. That’s 6 first choice players and then the back up hooker, to the hooker who was missing. We don’t want violins over here, it’s part and parcel of the sport and it’s standard for us and many other teams to be missing players, so we crack on but obviously it helps nobody.

Fair and just for context the below is a cut and paste from one of my posts on Redvee. I then added another to say that I had forgottten that Havard was missing.

We need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves with injuries though as it becomes a convenient excuse. We’ve been really lucky over the last 3 years or so and even this season compared to the likes of Hull, Leeds at times and HKR we are still better off.

On Friday night Wigan had Farrell and Bateman missing (both starting back rowers) Leulaui, Powell, Thornley all injured, arguably 5 of their starting 13 yet second half in particular they looked really impressive. They’ve had KPP, Cust, Leulaui and Thornley missing for large parts of the season too.

Sides have injuries, it’s part and parcel of the game. We need to stop the negativity and deal with it.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:06 pm  

I then added the below so I won't be using it as an excuse if we don't get the 4 peat. I've said all along that we are the best team in the comp at full strength and I'm not deviating from that but I feel that we do look busted and fatigued at the minute. Maybe 3 years playing with the intensity and aggression we do has caught up with us.

I've said before that we are mentioning injuries too much and are in danger of allowing them to be a convenient excuse. Of course they affect us and we'd love a full team but Grace didn't play for most of the start of the season when we were outstanding, the same with Hopoate. Dodd has been injured since Good Friday and we've had some good performances since then. Catalan had 13 starters missing yesterday to put things into perspective and still got the result.

Our strength in depth in the backs is pretty weak. I don't see anything in Davies at all and can't understand why he was given a new deal. Simm has been sent on loan and Hill at this stage looks physically not ready for the first team. Bennison has done well and will get even better as he fills out and gains more experience.

Other clubs even this season have had more injuries than we have so we need to stop going on about it so much as I said in a previous post

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:17 pm  

I think the magic game highlights why injuries aren’t an excuse for Saints and it also highlights that when the crunch comes, you’ll be extremely hard to beat, even shy of 4,5,6 players (if it came to that). That was a very good game and Saints dominated in good spells and put in a very good performance (we did have some absences as well but not to players as crucial as the Saints absences).

Both sides are disrupted at the moment but I don’t think it’s playing too much of a part in a bit of a malaise that looks to be going on. I just think both clubs are waiting for the proper stuff now. I think we’re a bit more switched on because we still need wins to cement a top two spot but I don’t think we’re near our best.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion : Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:23 pm  

Game confirmed for the Friday on Sky