Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:55 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

I think that's a perfect way to sum everything up. Since last Thursday, we've seen some ridiculous posts on here and everyone does need to calm down.

I'll admit tho, I'm guilty of it too. I find myself getting annoyed with stuff that IL and KR do. ATEOTD tho, what good does it do to slate them on here or not go? They won't (for good or bad) be around forever and the up and downs are part and parcel of following a big club.

Should have also said
Last week when people were throwing figures of 100k and saying its ridiculous the likes of Byrne/Partington/Smithies etc are on that and getting themselves all worked up and criticising IL/KR is the biggest case of 2+2 equals 11 ever.

The scenario given by them was a hypothetical used to highlight what agents etc are wanting, and why when releasing 3 star players for example they may oy be able to buy 1or2 because the youngsters will be :-
A/ getting their increments if they're younger
B/ agents asking for higher figures for the younger players around age of 21 as their initial contracts end

But that doesn't mean all of them are on that and/or ever likely to get that

One of the players mentioned above is on a quarter of the numbers being bandied around as truth.
But someone puts rubbish out there, everyone jumps on it as truth and then the club etc are hung drawn and quartered on the basis of complete rubbish.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:17 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Should have also said
Last week when people were throwing figures of 100k and saying its ridiculous the likes of Byrne/Partington/Smithies etc are on that and getting themselves all worked up and criticising IL/KR is the biggest case of 2+2 equals 11 ever.

The scenario given by them was a hypothetical used to highlight what agents etc are wanting, and why when releasing 3 star players for example they may oy be able to buy 1or2 because the youngsters will be :-
A/ getting their increments if they're younger
B/ agents asking for higher figures for the younger players around age of 21 as their initial contracts end

But that doesn't mean all of them are on that and/or ever likely to get that

One of the players mentioned above is on a quarter of the numbers being bandied around as truth.
But someone puts rubbish out there, everyone jumps on it as truth and then the club etc are hung drawn and quartered on the basis of complete rubbish.

The amount of posts, questions, complaints linked to topics that were discussed in the forum is staggering.

The information and detail is out their, people either don't want to hear / read it or just don't understand it.

The posts about all the youngsters being on £100k is a clear example of people just picking and choosing specific points to suit their narrative without applying the right context.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:03 pm  

nathan_rugby wrote:

The amount of posts, questions, complaints linked to topics that were discussed in the forum is staggering.

The information and detail is out their, people either don't want to hear / read it or just don't understand it.

The posts about all the youngsters being on £100k is a clear example of people just picking and choosing specific points to suit their narrative without applying the right context.

Like 3 word slogans
Headlines
Facebook
Twitter

There is a tendency to want to do the littlest amount of research and blurt out the easiest simple answer as if its thats easy.
The more people try and give reasons or explanation, the more people twist it and pick holes in arguments or words people didn't even say.

The issue is that it becomes an echo chamber of misinformation/half truths and the ones who can splurt out the most info whether it be true or not usually win.
Unfortunately quick headline grabbing statements, quick half truths, and ignoring complicated/nuanced information is easier than absorbing lots of information.

I know how this comes across, and I accept that doesn't mean that all is right etc. When it isn't.

But (and this is only my opinion) it seems that just like when we win and we get 5 posts a day, yet when we lose we get 100
Any good news is ignored and bad news is made mountain's out of mole hills and repeated a million times and every tiny bit of other info is twisted with no real evidence into negativity
We very much seem to want to self destruct and in my opinion that drags people into the negativity far more than is truly reflective of situations
Stands back, waits to be told that things are really as bad as they're making out.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:37 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I don’t think Sarginson will come back to be honest. It feels like Tommy may just stay now and that’s that for our recruitment.

I may need to revisit my list just to cheer me up.

I’d personally prefer a centre partnership of Sarg and Thornley to any we have managed at Wigan this year.

Hardaker has shown signs of how good a player and a real asset he has been for Wigan at times this year, mainly at 1.

I thought he was fantastic at centre last year but failed to produce that form when played there.

I personally won’t be too upset if he goes. He can be fantastic but sadly there always seems to be an issue with him, if it’s his fault or not there always seems to be something not quite right with him during his time at Wigan.

Top quality centres are as rare as hens teeth. That is a fact.

Whilst Sarg isn’t Renouf he is still a good SL player, and good enough to be in a side expecting to challenge for trophies.

I don’t get the Thornley backlash to be honest. Ok he isn’t a huge name, but again we don’t have the quota spots to look overseas and very few quality options would be willing to come. Hopoate has been bang average for a good few years now and he is being made out to to be a top signing.

Thornley has played some good rugby this year in a side generally dominated on 99% of their matches.

He is a “Moneyball” signing.

He may not be a star but he brings attributes we need to help build a team. With quality ball he has good go forward and his strike rate is reasonable on such a poor Leigh team.

I’m quite looking forward to see where he fits in to the team jigsaw next year.

I expect him to more than prove a few wrong when he gets his chance.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:55 pm  

I’ve said elsewhere we’ve won Grand Finals with Sarginson and Thornley in the team. The money ball comment is a good one. Let’s face it, Wane is back here and I think Peet is seen very much as a guy who has come out of the Wane school of coaching (literally) and I’m thinking we’ll start to re-implement those same sort of tactics we did in the past. If we do that then we’ll want 4 outside backs all capable of getting the ball away from our own line. They’ll be taking multiple carries per set between them and Sarginson and Thornley are players Wane has trusted to do that job in the past. You look at Miski and he’s built like a tank and looks to fit that mould they’ll look for as well.

The issue is you’d want a couple of really steady halfbacks fo pull the trigger at the other end and that’s the big worry for me.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:21 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Like 3 word slogans
Headlines
Facebook
Twitter

There is a tendency to want to do the littlest amount of research and blurt out the easiest simple answer as if its thats easy.
The more people try and give reasons or explanation, the more people twist it and pick holes in arguments or words people didn't even say.

The issue is that it becomes an echo chamber of misinformation/half truths and the ones who can splurt out the most info whether it be true or not usually win.
Unfortunately quick headline grabbing statements, quick half truths, and ignoring complicated/nuanced information is easier than absorbing lots of information.

I know how this comes across, and I accept that doesn't mean that all is right etc. When it isn't.

But (and this is only my opinion) it seems that just like when we win and we get 5 posts a day, yet when we lose we get 100
Any good news is ignored and bad news is made mountain's out of mole hills and repeated a million times and every tiny bit of other info is twisted with no real evidence into negativity
We very much seem to want to self destruct and in my opinion that drags people into the negativity far more than is truly reflective of situations
Stands back, waits to be told that things are really as bad as they're making out.

For me there have been too many recent poor decisions on signings and contract extensions e.g. Burgess, Clark, Clubb and Bateman for example
The 4 new Aussies we’ve signed ( including Field) have less 100 first team appearances between them when the squad is screaming out for experience.

I’m sure that planning and managing of the cap is part science and part art therefore, nobody is ever going to get it exactly right and mistakes can and will happen. I just feel (which may well be invalid) we’ve lost our way in the last few seasons and things come home to roost exacerbated by COVID and a more general decline in playing standards.

There appears to be a general lack of energy about the club. This undoubtedly is due in part to COVID and the owners of the Latics but the senior management team at the club have got to overcome this.They have got to show that they know how to work our way through this. If they can’t they should move on or be moved on or preferably bring in extra support at senior levels.

I’m just frustrated with the general malaise that emanates from the club.
Maybe Wane and Peet can work wonders with still a largely inexperienced and imbalanced squad. If they can’t unless there are few rabbits to be pulled out of the hat 2022 is going to be a hard season.

In 54 years of watching the club I’ve had more bad seasons than good but the last season for frustration was the worst by a country mile. I just cannot excuse the club for retaining Lam for so long when it was apparent to everyone the guy was completely out of his depth. The guy could have been put on garden leave to see out his contract and the only extra cost would have been to top up Peet’s salary to reflect his extra responsibilities. If financially we couldn’t accommodate that then we really are in the shoite.

I wish Peet well and I’m certain the extra effort from him and SW is a given and they probably will squeeze out that little bit more but it won’t be enough for me to go out and a buy a season ticket.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:04 pm  

We could swap squads with Leigh and I'd still get a season ticket.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:12 pm  

I would say we have made some risky signings. I don't think you could class Bateman as one? How without the hindsight of the way he's played? For me it would be a high percentage of fans that was glad we brought him back and I still feel most would think he may still recapture his old form. Burgess was a big risk and I still don't get it so that's a fair one. Clark along with Bullock I would class both as project style signings. I still don't get when we was struggling how they have both been managed and utilized, infact I think it's been detrimental to both us and them. Obviously I'm not at training but I remember Bullock being given about 5 minutes off the bench at the end of one game, if he had misbehaved or not trained well just drop him, I don't get that? Again I don't think you can point them as mistakes from the club apart from the claims for how good Clark was from Rads.
Clubb looked shot to me, maybe they wanted his experience around? Though as much as we look at the above we was better with them playing for us than without... Lam obviously saw it differently.
Previous to that Hastings and French was top signings obviously we was unlucky re French, I think we rushed him back once he was here. You could maybe excuse the circumstances re his personal issues and the pandemic.
Zak was/is a risk for me he's been Ok to good on the field but he's not upto the quality that French brings from 1 . He's always in the risk category off the field.
Field just so unlucky so yes looks a risk but again you could not see what was going to happen. Dom Manfredi with his record injury wise again class it as a risk but one I think we can all understand and would have made?
Looking at next season upto now I would have made changes ideally a hooker and a half along with a decent strike centre. Losing so much experience from the team and how many young lads we have must be difficult. Personally I think the half was something we needed to sort, again if Williams had stuck to his word we would not be in the position that we are now. Again it's only what I was told but he had more or less give his word to us before the massive offer from Wire came in. Again I think the club did the right thing. I would class all the lads coming in as slightly on the risk side of things. Your limited in what you can get from the NRL without big bucks or the players will have either baggage, injury or age concerns that classes them in the risk band. Fringe players are always a grey area as to how they will go same with ones stepping up from championship. I do think as much as I liked Lam we was lacking in direction from him as a coach. I expect to see more from our young lads another year older a new coach to impress and so on. We was always in the games we lost decent D just no idea with the ball. Big year for Smith maybe with more of a lead role in the halves he will do well. Havard, Byrne,Smithies, KPP and Oli P
all played well back end so with competition/ help and some direction I hope they can kick on. I may be daft, like I felt at half time away at Hull spending money and time watching but I can't help it. Surley the bad times makes the good ones taste even sweeter?

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:17 am  

Bateman isn’t as far off as we think IMO. It’s the errors he needs to cut out but take his last two games against Leeds and Hull. I’ll be honest, I sat during both thinking ‘we need more’ but looking at his numbers statically he made 147 metres and 40 tackles verses Leeds and 139 metres and 41 tackles against Hull. They’re very good performances by anyone’s standards but the expectations on him are so big after his time Down Under. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying he can’t improve but he’ll get there next season I’m 100% convinced because he’s banging that out, even off his best.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:50 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

Bateman isn’t as far off as we think IMO. It’s the errors he needs to cut out but take his last two games against Leeds and Hull. I’ll be honest, I sat during both thinking ‘we need more’ but looking at his numbers statically he made 147 metres and 40 tackles verses Leeds and 139 metres and 41 tackles against Hull. They’re very good performances by anyone’s standards but the expectations on him are so big after his time Down Under. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying he can’t improve but he’ll get there next season I’m 100% convinced because he’s banging that out, even off his best.

I'm not anti Bateman but at the time we signed him as a marquee we needed top quality props (plural), centres (plural), another HB (assuming TL retires), arguably another hooker and in 9 nine years of waiting a decent goal kicker.
From the club's point of view if we hadn't have signed him the fans would have gone ballistic so I see the pressure there but thats why we have senior management who can see the bigger picture.

Do I think Bateman will be better next year? In all probability and no injuries then yes but we are still exposed in other areas. It will be interesting to see where we play him and what extra Peet can get out of him.