Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:01 am  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

I'm not anti Bateman but at the time we signed him as a marquee we needed top quality props (plural), centres (plural), another HB (assuming TL retires), arguably another hooker and in 9 nine years of waiting a decent goal kicker.
From the club's point of view if we hadn't have signed him the fans would have gone ballistic so I see the pressure there but thats why we have senior management who can see the bigger picture.

Do I think Bateman will be better next year? In all probability and no injuries then yes but we are still exposed in other areas. It will be interesting to see where we play him and what extra Peet can get out of him.

Oh I agree that we can debate the merits of us signing him and if we should’ve bothered in the first place but we did sign him and we now need to look at how we can get the very best out of him. I see comments about him as though he’s been a disaster and is a busted flush but realistically I think he’s pretty close to being where we should expect him to be. I think some people thought he’d come back and run through teams and be some sort of unstoppable force. He’s never done that and never will because ultimately he’s a lad who punches above his weight and has to scrap for every single metre, break, tackle bust. He doesn’t have the luxury of other players maybe underestimating him anymore, as he did prior to his NRL stint. Do you pay marquee money for that type of player? Well we have done and as you say, people would’ve gone mad had we not, so it’s a no win situation for Lenagan/Rads. I think he’ll prove his worth in the end and be a wise pick up but the expectations on him need to cool a bit for me.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:18 am  

Jukesays wrote:

Like 3 word slogans
Headlines
Facebook
Twitter

There is a tendency to want to do the littlest amount of research and blurt out the easiest simple answer as if its thats easy.
The more people try and give reasons or explanation, the more people twist it and pick holes in arguments or words people didn't even say.

The issue is that it becomes an echo chamber of misinformation/half truths and the ones who can splurt out the most info whether it be true or not usually win.
Unfortunately quick headline grabbing statements, quick half truths, and ignoring complicated/nuanced information is easier than absorbing lots of information.

I know how this comes across, and I accept that doesn't mean that all is right etc. When it isn't.

But (and this is only my opinion) it seems that just like when we win and we get 5 posts a day, yet when we lose we get 100
Any good news is ignored and bad news is made mountain's out of mole hills and repeated a million times and every tiny bit of other info is twisted with no real evidence into negativity
We very much seem to want to self destruct and in my opinion that drags people into the negativity far more than is truly reflective of situations
Stands back, waits to be told that things are really as bad as they're making out.

Unfortunately, this is very much the society / world we live in today

i just need to think about work, and how often my team and myself do things well. It is just expected, but god help us when we do something wrong. The whole company feels like it is coming down on you. The whole blame game starts, until they get blood. This is how watching Wigan RL feels at the minute, and as you have commented above. Win, there is nothing. Lose there is a whole week of griping

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:18 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

Bateman isn’t as far off as we think IMO. It’s the errors he needs to cut out but take his last two games against Leeds and Hull. I’ll be honest, I sat during both thinking ‘we need more’ but looking at his numbers statically he made 147 metres and 40 tackles verses Leeds and 139 metres and 41 tackles against Hull. They’re very good performances by anyone’s standards but the expectations on him are so big after his time Down Under. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying he can’t improve but he’ll get there next season I’m 100% convinced because he’s banging that out, even off his best.

I'm pretty confident that we will improve next year.

I don't think we are as poor and in need of a clear out as some say. I think (and you've touched on this before NK) we are were Saints were under Cunningham. Bring in a decent coach and every player improves.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:28 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

Oh I agree that we can debate the merits of us signing him and if we should’ve bothered in the first place but we did sign him and we now need to look at how we can get the very best out of him. I see comments about him as though he’s been a disaster and is a busted flush but realistically I think he’s pretty close to being where we should expect him to be. I think some people thought he’d come back and run through teams and be some sort of unstoppable force. He’s never done that and never will because ultimately he’s a lad who punches above his weight and has to scrap for every single metre, break, tackle bust. He doesn’t have the luxury of other players maybe underestimating him anymore, as he did prior to his NRL stint. Do you pay marquee money for that type of player? Well we have done and as you say, people would’ve gone mad had we not, so it’s a no win situation for Lenagan/Rads. I think he’ll prove his worth in the end and be a wise pick up but the expectations on him need to cool a bit for me.

I like Bateman as he adds that bit of mongrel to the pack that all good packs need. Assuming Peet has a similar management style to SW I'm sure Bateman will be more comfortable in playing and working in that type of environment. Maybe promoting him to club captain could reduce some of his ill discipline and keep him focused rather than worry about niggling issues during a game.

I'm not particularly keen on the Isa/Farrell/Bateman backrow due to size and to a lesser degree lack of variability in style but I'm hoping KPP will break into that trio and stoke up competition in 2022 with as we have discussed Smithies in the mix.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:37 am  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

I like Bateman as he adds that bit of mongrel to the pack that all good packs need. Assuming Peet has a similar management style to SW I'm sure Bateman will be more comfortable in playing and working in that type of environment. Maybe promoting him to club captain could reduce some of his ill discipline and keep him focused rather than worry about niggling issues during a game.

I'm not particularly keen on the Isa/Farrell/Bateman backrow due to size and to a lesser degree lack of variability in style but I'm hoping KPP will break into that trio and stoke up competition in 2022 with as we have discussed Smithies in the mix.

I’d like to see Bateman given that run at 13 that Lam spoke of. He very weirdly decided not to bother with it, even when it was an option but I always sensed Bateman was really looking forward to that opportunity and it never came, bar the odd few mins here and there.

I think the likelihood is that those three will form a starting back row but who knows. I’d love to see KPP bang a few kilos on in the off season. He doesn’t look like a lad that will overly rely on any great pace but he’s tough to handle and will become more so as he fills out.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:40 am  

jonh wrote:

I’d personally prefer a centre partnership of Sarg and Thornley to any we have managed at Wigan this year.

Hardaker has shown signs of how good a player and a real asset he has been for Wigan at times this year, mainly at 1.

I thought he was fantastic at centre last year but failed to produce that form when played there.

I personally won’t be too upset if he goes. He can be fantastic but sadly there always seems to be an issue with him, if it’s his fault or not there always seems to be something not quite right with him during his time at Wigan.

Top quality centres are as rare as hens teeth. That is a fact.

Whilst Sarg isn’t Renouf he is still a good SL player, and good enough to be in a side expecting to challenge for trophies.

I don’t get the Thornley backlash to be honest. Ok he isn’t a huge name, but again we don’t have the quota spots to look overseas and very few quality options would be willing to come. Hopoate has been bang average for a good few years now and he is being made out to to be a top signing.

Thornley has played some good rugby this year in a side generally dominated on 99% of their matches.

He is a “Moneyball” signing.

He may not be a star but he brings attributes we need to help build a team. With quality ball he has good go forward and his strike rate is reasonable on such a poor Leigh team.

I’m quite looking forward to see where he fits in to the team jigsaw next year.

I expect him to more than prove a few wrong when he gets his chance.

I agree on Thornley. He can be a real handful when he's "on it." It's all about the mental side of things for me with him. Get him motivated and giving 100% and he's a good player.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:49 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

Oh I agree that we can debate the merits of us signing him and if we should’ve bothered in the first place but we did sign him and we now need to look at how we can get the very best out of him. I see comments about him as though he’s been a disaster and is a busted flush but realistically I think he’s pretty close to being where we should expect him to be. I think some people thought he’d come back and run through teams and be some sort of unstoppable force. He’s never done that and never will because ultimately he’s a lad who punches above his weight and has to scrap for every single metre, break, tackle bust. He doesn’t have the luxury of other players maybe underestimating him anymore, as he did prior to his NRL stint. Do you pay marquee money for that type of player? Well we have done and as you say, people would’ve gone mad had we not, so it’s a no win situation for Lenagan/Rads. I think he’ll prove his worth in the end and be a wise pick up but the expectations on him need to cool a bit for me.

It's interesting reading this. I have wanted to bring it up a few times but didn't bother for fear of just being accused of trolling. Personally I think he has been a bit of disappointment overall. I get your point about him not being the type of player to make endless breaks and score loads of tries etc, he's always been more of dogged workhorse type player. However whenever I have seen him this season he has seemed clumsy and ill-disciplined. Mistakes, penalties and at times easily rattled and a bit petulant. He hasn't lived up to the hype at all (some of which his own doing on Twitter.) When we have played you I have been more concerned about Farrell and KPP than him. He needs to be much better for you next season in my opinion.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:56 am  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

I agree on Thornley. He can be a real handful when he's "on it." It's all about the mental side of things for me with him. Get him motivated and giving 100% and he's a good player.

I’d have loved to see what Thornley could do under somebody like Holbrook. He seemed to effortlessly be able to motivate players but from the outside looking in, I felt it was done by building lads confidence and putting an arm around them. That feels perfect for Thornley and I think he could’ve turned him in to a totally different player, as he did with a few Saints lads.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:05 am  

Personally I think it's time for Bateman to transition into the 13 role. I've seen a few moments this season, with him in the middle of the park creating stuff for others. He's not Lockers, but I want to see him have more of the ball and more impact on the game. That also opens up room for KPP and I also think Smithies works better (at the min) out wide too.

Sometimes it comes to a point in a players career at a club where they just need to be given more responsibility for how the team plays. The obvious example is a few years old now, but it's Lockyer moving to HB. More recently you'd say Mitchell going from, arguably, the best centre in the game to playing 1.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:06 am  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

It's interesting reading this. I have wanted to bring it up a few times but didn't bother for fear of just being accused of trolling. Personally I think he has been a bit of disappointment overall. I get your point about him not being the type of player to make endless breaks and score loads of tries etc, he's always been more of dogged workhorse type player. However whenever I have seen him this season he has seemed clumsy and ill-disciplined. Mistakes, penalties and at times easily rattled and a bit petulant. He hasn't lived up to the hype at all (some of which his own doing on Twitter.) When we have played you I have been more concerned about Farrell and KPP than him. He needs to be much better for you next season in my opinion.

The thing is though, everyone has been error riddled, indisciplined and well off their best, so I will give him the same slack as the rest of them. His constant moaning to the ref has grated on me more than anything though. He does look a little bit like he himself felt it would be pretty easy in superleague compared to the NRL but I think there are many factors to why he’s not quite hit his best but the main one has been the coach, as it has been with the whole side.

The positive for us is that I point out his numbers from his last two games. An average of about 145 metres and 40 tackles per game. These are figures many backrowers in superleague could only dream of and he’s banging that out whilst off his best. Looking at that positively, it’s pretty exciting to think there’s lots of improvement in him.