Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:12 am  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

It's interesting reading this. I have wanted to bring it up a few times but didn't bother for fear of just being accused of trolling. Personally I think he has been a bit of disappointment overall. I get your point about him not being the type of player to make endless breaks and score loads of tries etc, he's always been more of dogged workhorse type player. However whenever I have seen him this season he has seemed clumsy and ill-disciplined. Mistakes, penalties and at times easily rattled and a bit petulant. He hasn't lived up to the hype at all (some of which his own doing on Twitter.) When we have played you I have been more concerned about Farrell and KPP than him. He needs to be much better for you next season in my opinion.

In sixteen appearances Bateman has made almost 1800 metres, only given away five penalties, made 558 tackles only missing 35, with 37 offloads. I agree his eighteen errors are too many. But, Liam Farrell apart there are few backrow forwards that can match those stats, and certainly none at Saints.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:21 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

In sixteen appearances Bateman has made almost 1800 metres, only given away five penalties, made 558 tackles only missing 35, with 37 offloads. I agree his eighteen errors are too many. But, Liam Farrell apart there are few backrow forwards that can match those stats, and certainly none at Saints.

Haha stats only tell half the story. But the metres are impressive to be fair, averaging over 100m a game if your figures are correct.

Honest answer though mate, would you agree Knowles is a better 13 currently, regardless of stats? Seeing as you brought us into it I know he's played mostly at 2nd row but there's plenty talk of him moving to 13.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:23 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

I’d have loved to see what Thornley could do under somebody like Holbrook. He seemed to effortlessly be able to motivate players but from the outside looking in, I felt it was done by building lads confidence and putting an arm around them. That feels perfect for Thornley and I think he could’ve turned him in to a totally different player, as he did with a few Saints lads.

I have always said this about Thornley, he sometimes comes across like he coasts along and he's not really bothered. But if Peet/Wane can get him focused then there's a good player there.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:27 am  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote: Haha stats only tell half the story. But the metres are impressive to be fair, averaging over 100m a game if your figures are correct. Honest answer though mate, would you agree Knowles is a better 13 currently, regardless of stats? Seeing as you brought us into it https://www.superleague.co.uk/player/27 ... %3Ebateman https://www.superleague.co.uk/player/13 ... %3Eknowles You decide. Bateman hasn't played at #13 all season

The Yellow Giraffe wrote: Haha stats only tell half the story. But the metres are impressive to be fair, averaging over 100m a game if your figures are correct. Honest answer though mate, would you agree Knowles is a better 13 currently, regardless of stats? Seeing as you brought us into it https://www.superleague.co.uk/player/27 ... %3Ebateman https://www.superleague.co.uk/player/13 ... %3Eknowles You decide. Bateman hasn't played at #13 all season

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:34 am  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Haha stats only tell half the story. But the metres are impressive to be fair, averaging over 100m a game if your figures are correct.

Honest answer though mate, would you agree Knowles is a better 13 currently, regardless of stats? Seeing as you brought us into it I know he's played mostly at 2nd row but there's plenty talk of him moving to 13.

Knowles is a 13 therefore he’s a better loose forward because Bateman is not one(bar the number on his back). The question should be is Bateman a better player than Knowles? I think the answer is yes and by a reasonable distance at this moment in time. Has Bateman had a better season? Probably not but I wouldn’t get ahead of yourself when it comes to trying compare any Saints back rower with John Bateman. We’re talking about a Dally M second rower of the year here, a proven World Class performer. I’m sure Knowles and the other Saints back rowers would give their back teeth to reach that level. The fact Bateman is out performing them all statistically, whilst not at his best should tell you all you need to know.

I said the other day Knowles brings qualities you can’t measure in stats by the way. I absolutely stick by that but Bateman brings similar qualities and then throws the numbers in on top of that when at his best. Could Knowles get to the level Bateman has reached? Possibly. Is he there yet? No.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:30 am  

Onto Thornley, personally I wouldn't have signed him. IMO he's very much in the mould of Karl Pryce and Sami Kibula. All very big and athletic lads as juniors who because of their physical size had it "easy" and tempted to just trample over their opponents. They all seem to lack the aggression you need to become top class players and as such were "lazy"

If you could put a John Bateman, Sam Tomkins etc mentality into any of those they could have been international standard players.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:38 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Onto Thornley, personally I wouldn't have signed him. IMO he's very much in the mould of Karl Pryce and Sami Kibula. All very big and athletic lads as juniors who because of their physical size had it "easy" and tempted to just trample over their opponents. They all seem to lack the aggression you need to become top class players and as such were "lazy"

If you could put a John Bateman, Sam Tomkins etc mentality into any of those they could have been international standard players.

You could add Joe Bullock to that list. It's always a shame when you see players with all the natural physical advantages fail to reach their potential because they haven't the necessary mental steel. This is what has particularly impressed me about KPP this year. He appears to have both in spades.

Thornley is a good player, despite the negativity surrounding his signing. He will have good games. The question is will he have enough of them?

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:40 am  

Very few and far between are big lads like Pryce, Thornley, Greenwood etc who have that real mongrel inside them. As you say it all probably comes from not having to overly exert themselves as juniors and on the flip side guys like Tomkins and Bateman have had to do that. A guy like KPP is exciting on that score because he does look to have that natural size but also a bit of natural aggression and fight about him. It’s not ott but he doesn’t look as laid back and retiring as guys like Thornley, Pryce, Greenwood etc.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:42 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

You could add Joe Bullock to that list. It's always a shame when you see players with all the natural physical advantages fail to reach their potential because they haven't the necessary mental steel. This is what has particularly impressed me about KPP this year. He appears to have both in spades.

Thornley is a good player, despite the negativity surrounding his signing. He will have good games. The question is will he have enough of them?

Snap on KPP. I was typing pretty much the same as you’d posted. He’s a lad who could become pretty special as he fills out and gains experience.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:15 pm  

I remember a friend of mine who played at Sale Sharks at the same time Thornley was there giving me his blunt assessment - 'great athlete, got some skills but just a bit soft.'