Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:33 am  

Fact is that people on here do not know the exact comings and goings, but the club do. Just trust them to get it right.

My own opinion is that no matter who we signed most people on here would choose to be critical of it in some way. If you lot supported them with as much passion as you want to criticise them with and got your hands in your pockets and bought season tickets then we would be in a far better place as a club.

OR just carry on writing rubbish on here thinking you have an idea of how running a club works??

The latter i suspect as normal

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:40 am  

JonnyBroad wrote:

Fact is that people on here do not know the exact comings and goings, but the club do. Just trust them to get it right.

My own opinion is that no matter who we signed most people on here would choose to be critical of it in some way. If you lot supported them with as much passion as you want to criticise them with and got your hands in your pockets and bought season tickets then we would be in a far better place as a club.

OR just carry on writing rubbish on here thinking you have an idea of how running a club works??

The latter i suspect as normal

So basically, don't have an opinion & keep clapping.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:47 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

So basically, don't have an opinion & keep clapping.

No just stop making things up like French not coming back ect…. And deal with facts. why should Wigan have to tell people every day what French is doing? Point is that the people making the decisions know what’s happening.

Trust me i am not a happy clapper. I just understand the complexity of situations unlike people on here who think we should sign every player who becomes available then call um crap when they don't score 11 try's in the first game.

OR just carry on making rumours up.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:14 am  

JonnyBroad wrote:

No just stop making things up like French not coming back ect…. And deal with facts. why should Wigan have to tell people every day what French is doing? Point is that the people making the decisions know what’s happening.

Trust me i am not a happy clapper. I just understand the complexity of situations unlike people on here who think we should sign every player who becomes available then call um crap when they don't score 11 try's in the first game.

OR just carry on making rumours up.

Right, so we all don't have your intelligence to understand that signings are a complex affair.

Here's the thing, it works both ways. Those in the know have made mistakes. Look at Burgess as a perfect example - all the fans thought it was a great signing, me included. Those in the know, knew he was done but we still signed him & to a marquee deal too.

French may, or may not leave. It's a rumours thread tho and a forum for discussing things related to Wigan.

You talk about dealing with facts, but where do you draw the line? It seems to be taken as fact that Thornley has signed, or that Powell has inked a new deal - there's nothing from the club tho, so are they facts? What about Zak? Where's the line on if that's a fact, or not? I assume an opinion on these are banned too?

[Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy]

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:56 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Right, so we all don't have your intelligence to understand that signings are a complex affair.

Here's the thing, it works both ways. Those in the know have made mistakes. Look at Burgess as a perfect example - all the fans thought it was a great signing, me included. Those in the know, knew he was done but we still signed him & to a marquee deal too.

French may, or may not leave. It's a rumours thread tho and a forum for discussing things related to Wigan.

You talk about dealing with facts, but where do you draw the line? It seems to be taken as fact that Thornley has signed, or that Powell has inked a new deal - there's nothing from the club tho, so are they facts? What about Zak? Where's the line on if that's a fact, or not? I assume an opinion on these are banned too?

It does seem a bit left-field to criticise people for discussing rumours and signings in a rumours and signings thread.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:23 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Good post.

Personally, I'm worried that if we go down the route of being patient in 2022, it doesn't mean it's a given that things will be right in 2023. The two seasons are linked imo.

I'm very excited for Peet, but I know our fans and if he's not got the tools to work with, especially at HB, then he's going to be in for a rough ride. After that and back to my point about seasons being linked, things are always easier when you come from a position of strength. If 2022 is a bad one, we'll be paying overs to get players to come into a struggling side etc.

Btw, I don't think we should go out and buy players for the sake of it. I do think that, if Zak leaves, we should open the cheque book to replace him. Go in for a Wardle and that covers two bases, 1 - he's a good player and 2 - it sends a message out too. Heck, cash + Zak would be even better. Use both to our advantage.

Sitting around and watching stuff fall to pieces, whilst taking no action, feels like what we've done under Lam this year. It needed action to save the season and it didn't happen . That's probably why I'm more reluctant than ever to be overly patient.

I didn't say the 2 were linked
I was saying that making rash decisions in 2022 "Could" hinder what happens in 2023
Not that doing nothing in 2022 will make 2023 better, the 2 are linked but not mutually

With regard to Wardle, this is the thing, how do we know that the club aren't trying to get players, identify players etc.?
I like Wardle (reminds me a young Gilmour in some ways when he played centre early in his career, but with better hands).
But the reality is, Zak Hardaker is a Wigan player, and yes Wigan could have plan b/c or whatever in case he isnt a Wigan player at some point (and they may know the answer to that ready or not), bit for now he is.

I've seen thousands of rumours on these threads and I very rarely opine on them, I'm more of a whenits doen it's done person, because 1% end up being true and I'd rather not waste my time either getting excited for something that doesn't happen 99% of the time or and this is were I'm coming from lately, getting worked up, angry, vitriolic, depressed about poor things that people reiterate or spread when they don't come true either.
Especially because whether I know or don't know, or have heard a rumour or not, it won't change a single thing to the outcome.

Back to the main point

I've said a couple of times that Lam would have gone end of 2019 for me
A couple of times that the Edwards fiasco is ultimately IL's fault

And I believe the position were in links directly to those decisions 2019/2020

I don't think there were lots of problems with the squads of 2019/2020/2021 barring an experienced prop, I just think we underperformed 50% consistantly week in week out.
I blame the coach for that, I blame IL/Rads for not acting sooner

Ironically I do see more issues with the squad 2022 (maybe not as worried as most are) but believe we have a better set up coaching wise (and jts all hypothetical I get it, but you can't praise too high or criticise Too much until we see the outcome 3/4months I to next season and maybe even beyond that) to get more out of them.

And if we can get players in (half back/centre) for 2022 great, I'd expect a top 3 finish and challeng for a trophy without the big game capitulation that seems to follow Lams tenure.
If we don't thenit may be 4th/5th even with good coaching or lower if they don't manage to get more out of them.

I just don't want us to end up in the 2005/2006/2007 short term mentality era again.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:26 am  

Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy wrote:

It does seem a bit left-field to criticise people for discussing rumours and signings in a rumours and signings thread.

Part of me gets it. I called 100% Warrior out earlier in the season to say that you can't knock the club until it's finished it's recruitment. I stand by that, but here we are at the end of the year and not only is all our business not done, but there's real talk (Zak) of one of our best leaving + rumours of another going. There's talk of another (HB) IL said it so it's one of those semi fact things again, but why leave it so late?

I look over at Saints and they just seem to have to their stuff together. The business is done, it's announced and it's onto the next year. We can debate all we want if they are stronger or weaker, but I doubt many will say they haven't moved quickly and decisively.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:39 am  

Jukesays wrote:

I didn't say the 2 were linked
I was saying that making rash decisions in 2022 "Could" hinder what happens in 2023
Not that doing nothing in 2022 will make 2023 better, the 2 are linked but not mutually

With regard to Wardle, this is the thing, how do we know that the club aren't trying to get players, identify players etc.?
I like Wardle (reminds me a young Gilmour in some ways when he played centre early in his career, but with better hands).
But the reality is, Zak Hardaker is a Wigan player, and yes Wigan could have plan b/c or whatever in case he isnt a Wigan player at some point (and they may know the answer to that ready or not), bit for now he is.

I've seen thousands of rumours on these threads and I very rarely opine on them, I'm more of a whenits doen it's done person, because 1% end up being true and I'd rather not waste my time either getting excited for something that doesn't happen 99% of the time or and this is were I'm coming from lately, getting worked up, angry, vitriolic, depressed about poor things that people reiterate or spread when they don't come true either.
Especially because whether I know or don't know, or have heard a rumour or not, it won't change a single thing to the outcome.

Back to the main point

I've said a couple of times that Lam would have gone end of 2019 for me
A couple of times that the Edwards fiasco is ultimately IL's fault

And I believe the position were in links directly to those decisions 2019/2020

I don't think there were lots of problems with the squads of 2019/2020/2021 barring an experienced prop, I just think we underperformed 50% consistantly week in week out.
I blame the coach for that, I blame IL/Rads for not acting sooner

Ironically I do see more issues with the squad 2022 (maybe not as worried as most are) but believe we have a better set up coaching wise (and jts all hypothetical I get it, but you can't praise too high or criticise Too much until we see the outcome 3/4months I to next season and maybe even beyond that) to get more out of them.

And if we can get players in (half back/centre) for 2022 great, I'd expect a top 3 finish and challeng for a trophy without the big game capitulation that seems to follow Lams tenure.
If we don't thenit may be 4th/5th even with good coaching or lower if they don't manage to get more out of them.

I just don't want us to end up in the 2005/2006/2007 short term mentality era again.

Jumping straight to the Wardle point, you're 100% correct. Me, you + others on here have no idea who the club are targeting. What I will say is this - people on this board always ask the question "what would you do then", me saying Wardle is my suggestion & opinion. I don't want to get into the territory that our resident troll gets into where it's all negative, but no opinions on how to solve it. I think we both agree on that.

I'll got back to an earlier post tho. We're very late in the game to be looking at signings (especially one as key as a HB). The club might be making moves, but I do think those are moves that should have been made 6 months ago.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:51 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Right, so we all don't have your intelligence to understand that signings are a complex affair.

Here's the thing, it works both ways. Those in the know have made mistakes. Look at Burgess as a perfect example - all the fans thought it was a great signing, me included. Those in the know, knew he was done but we still signed him & to a marquee deal too.

French may, or may not leave. It's a rumours thread tho and a forum for discussing things related to Wigan.

You talk about dealing with facts, but where do you draw the line? It seems to be taken as fact that Thornley has signed, or that Powell has inked a new deal - there's nothing from the club tho, so are they facts? What about Zak? Where's the line on if that's a fact, or not? I assume an opinion on these are banned too?

I agree about Burgess
The club should have had all the facts, and whether they did ot didn't too their homework the end result was very very poor, so they got it wrong.
He either shouldn't have been bought or we should have dealt with his condition a whole different way to get more (something) out of him
If we didn't have a plan to deal with it then its very poor

We have a new strength and conditioning person in this year, maybe that tells us the answer to the above. We have a new coach etc, maybe that points to something ?
Maybe IL/KR dropped a huge B*****k ???

I think the disagreement above is over the Powell/Thornley/Zak situations and despite them all beig completely different scenarios some people want answers, some are prepared to wait and have the opinion that there will be reasons why some things are known and others aren't.

I'm in the latter, IL said they'd signed Thornley, (Whether it's a good signingnis nitnthe point here) why it's not been announced I'm not particularly bothered about, but I can understand why some people are confused.
Some have the opinion if IL said its happening hen why not announce it
I have an opinion that he probably shouldn't have announced it at the secret 120 Mugs fans forum, but there's probably some legal I needs dotting or t needs crossing and they may have to what ilunti Nov 1st (which I believe is when existing contracts expire) to do so.
But I'm not going to go into complete critical overdrive for the ske of it

Zak situation the same, they were open at the forum that there was an issue, they explained what they were trying to do, and until I hear any different it is what it is.
Yeah, I suppose I do wonder whats going on, but end of the day it will be a complicated situation, and I question both parties for various reasons
I'm not sure it in Zaks best interest to be back round ponte carlo, I'm sure jonh and others will have a more informed opinion than mine
But I also think that when we took Zak on we knew what we were getting, I think we've dealt with it petty well so far, but the fact he wants to go, is it solely down to his partner and the commute, or does he not fancy the new coaching regime. In so.e ways I hope it's a bit of both
I hope its his partner wanting to go bit bit him
I also hope that if he has any concerns then the clubs new coaching set up is asking difficult commitment questions that are making him consider twice if he isn't 100% committed

It's a complicated set of circumstances and one that IL/KR have to admit they've played a significant part in ending up here.

IL is still the owner though, and past issues can't be used as a weight around new decisions moving forward in the same way people didn't forgive him for some errors in 19/20/21 and gave him no credit for the previous 10 years.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:03 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Jumping straight to the Wardle point, you're 100% correct. Me, you + others on here have no idea who the club are targeting. What I will say is this - people on this board always ask the question "what would you do then", me saying Wardle is my suggestion & opinion. I don't want to get into the territory that our resident troll gets into where it's all negative, but no opinions on how to solve it. I think we both agree on that.

I'll got back to an earlier post tho. We're very late in the game to be looking at signings (especially one as key as a HB). The club might be making moves, but I do think those are moves that should have been made 6 months ago.

I do agree about the halfback situation they.may have nailed their colours to the GW mast, but they have had ample.time to sort that out, and if TL or Field is the 2022 answer then expectations meed to be set
Centre, I'm guessing Bibby will be given starting 4 shirt over Thornley as it stands and I'm a bit 50/50 with this one. I think Bibby has been a great signing, I'm just not convinced he's a starting Centre, but if Peet/Wane etc go with that then so be it.

The Hardaker one is the difficult one
We all know that Hardaker will have spring this on the club at some.pkint relatively recently. He won't have sat down end of 2020 and planned a situation with the club on a mutually agreed exit strategy

But end if the day the club have to deal with it, a d it's not ideal its being down now rather than in May/June of this year.

I also agree that Saints doing their business early is good for them (without commenting on the rights or wrongs of their decisions)
A but like Liverpool have done over the last 4/5 years they've been. Decisive and early with their strategy.

But there are.many things that contribute to having that ability and I do agree leadership at the top comes into it, and I fully.expect Wanes appointment KRs removal into a role were he can concentrate on one aspect to the club (financial etc) rather then both (playing) to bear fruit down the line.
And there are other reasons. Hopefully they will be being addressed and we can have some consistency and better strategy with our policy moving forward.

But I do believe success breeds success, and we lost that winning culture and its drifted theblast 2 years or so.