Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:29 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

It's only good for the French team if the French players are getting regular game time

Is it better for the French team to have Catalans in SL with however many French players they use now, or to have them in the Championship with mainly French players? IMO the former because at least you've got some opportunities there for French guys to play at the top level, and you've got all the exposure that comes with being in SL which will attract talented players to play RL. I'd get it if they were just totally not French as with Toronto, but they are giving some opportunities to French players at least.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:07 pm  

Surely if British players counted on their cap (which I’m not against), French players should count on ours?

I think to develop world class French RL players in 15years is a tall order and a lot unrealistic. The progress they’re making and have made in the last few years will undoubtedly set them on that path, alongside the path of having a team dominated by quality French players. I get what some of you are saying and I can’t say I fully disagree but the expectation that France would be a top international side, Catalans would be an (almost) full French side, they have and are producing world class players and there would be a fully fledged working production line in 15 years is unrealistic.

The long term goal shouldn’t be to strengthen Catalans but to strengthen the French game to the point it can stand on its own 2 feet and have its own fully professional national competition. That’s where the real progress is made. Catalans can’t bring through all the French players, the development plan has to be more wide ranging and ambitious than that.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:14 pm  

100% Warrior wrote:

Surely if British players counted on their cap (which I’m not against), French players should count on ours?

I think to develop world class French RL players in 15years is a tall order and a lot unrealistic. The progress they’re making and have made in the last few years will undoubtedly set them on that path, alongside the path of having a team dominated by quality French players. I get what some of you are saying and I can’t say I fully disagree but the expectation that France would be a top international side, Catalans would be an (almost) full French side, they have and are producing world class players and there would be a fully fledged working production line in 15 years is unrealistic.

The long term goal shouldn’t be to strengthen Catalans but to strengthen the French game to the point it can stand on its own 2 feet and have its own fully professional national competition. That’s where the real progress is made. Catalans can’t bring through all the French players, the development plan has to be more wide ranging and ambitious than that.

I mentioned the 15 years and them having produced very few high quality players. Yes it’s not easy to have a system set up and be thriving within 15 years but it hasn’t come from scratch. They may not have had fully professional teams in France beforehand but they had a league of a reasonable standard and plenty of amateur teams. This isn’t Toronto we’re talking about for example.

Ultimately I just think they need to put some time pressure on them and look to reduce none French trained players in their squad over the period of the next 5 years plus. I think history tells us that when faced with the choice of promoting from within or going to England or Down Under for players, they tend to choose the latter. It’s not all bad and guys like Tomkins, McIlorum and Pearce bring so much experience to those young French players, that will be invaluable but they’re a few overseas players over what would be an ideal balance between them wanting to be successful and them wanting to help the French game as a whole by producing as many French players as possible IMO.

I keep using Morgue as an example but when does he get a starting shirt? The kids dynamite but Pearce is there for two years and they’ll no doubt look to keep Tomkins. They’ve also got Drinkwater signed up for two more years, so it’s safe to say it won’t be anytime soon. I think that’s a real shame.

I wasn’t aware French players didn’t count on our quota by the way. Do they? I genuinely don’t know (and at the minute it doesn’t impact on us).

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:00 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I mentioned the 15 years and them having produced very few high quality players. Yes it’s not easy to have a system set up and be thriving within 15 years but it hasn’t come from scratch. They may not have had fully professional teams in France beforehand but they had a league of a reasonable standard and plenty of amateur teams. This isn’t Toronto we’re talking about for example.

Ultimately I just think they need to put some time pressure on them and look to reduce none French trained players in their squad over the period of the next 5 years plus. I think history tells us that when faced with the choice of promoting from within or going to England or Down Under for players, they tend to choose the latter. It’s not all bad and guys like Tomkins, McIlorum and Pearce bring so much experience to those young French players, that will be invaluable but they’re a few overseas players over what would be an ideal balance between them wanting to be successful and them wanting to help the French game as a whole by producing as many French players as possible IMO.

I keep using Morgue as an example but when does he get a starting shirt? The kids dynamite but Pearce is there for two years and they’ll no doubt look to keep Tomkins. They’ve also got Drinkwater signed up for two more years, so it’s safe to say it won’t be anytime soon. I think that’s a real shame.

I wasn’t aware French players didn’t count on our quota by the way. Do they? I genuinely don’t know (and at the minute it doesn’t impact on us).

You raise some great points and in all honesty I don’t wholly disagree. Perhaps I’m looking at it at a slightly less harsher angle than you are but regardless we have a similar attitude in that Catalans and French RL must really now begin to kick on within the next decade.

Morgue is a great player and who knows what the future holds for him; other SL clubs, Toulouse, NRL? He looks to have the potential to succeed and Theo Fages is a perfect example of what can be achieved by branching out further than the French SL representation.

As far as I’m aware French players do not count on the quota (I’d hope not anyway).

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:02 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I mentioned the 15 years and them having produced very few high quality players. Yes it’s not easy to have a system set up and be thriving within 15 years but it hasn’t come from scratch. They may not have had fully professional teams in France beforehand but they had a league of a reasonable standard and plenty of amateur teams. This isn’t Toronto we’re talking about for example.

Ultimately I just think they need to put some time pressure on them and look to reduce none French trained players in their squad over the period of the next 5 years plus. I think history tells us that when faced with the choice of promoting from within or going to England or Down Under for players, they tend to choose the latter. It’s not all bad and guys like Tomkins, McIlorum and Pearce bring so much experience to those young French players, that will be invaluable but they’re a few overseas players over what would be an ideal balance between them wanting to be successful and them wanting to help the French game as a whole by producing as many French players as possible IMO.

I keep using Morgue as an example but when does he get a starting shirt? The kids dynamite but Pearce is there for two years and they’ll no doubt look to keep Tomkins. They’ve also got Drinkwater signed up for two more years, so it’s safe to say it won’t be anytime soon. I think that’s a real shame.

I wasn’t aware French players didn’t count on our quota by the way. Do they? I genuinely don’t know (and at the minute it doesn’t impact on us).

I think (and I stand to be corrected) that until Brexit the RFL/SL could not stop Catalans from signing players form the UK under EU employment rules and I think the same applied to French players in the UK - freedom of movement and employment would stop any quota being applied. Since Brexit I assume things may have or will change once contracts signed before brexit have run down.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:09 pm  

100% Warrior wrote:

You raise some great points and in all honesty I don’t wholly disagree. Perhaps I’m looking at it at a slightly less harsher angle than you are but regardless we have a similar attitude in that Catalans and French RL must really now begin to kick on within the next decade.

Morgue is a great player and who knows what the future holds for him; other SL clubs, Toulouse, NRL? He looks to have the potential to succeed and Theo Fages is a perfect example of what can be achieved by branching out further than the French SL representation.

As far as I’m aware French players do not count on the quota (I’d hope not anyway).

I love having the French teams in superleague and I hope they’re around for a very long time. I think I’m just desperate to see the French National side improve. Maybe they have to a point because the recent performance against England wasn’t too bad in comparison to some of years gone by but England were probably missing 15+ players all in all and seemed to turn it in when they went in to a big lead early doors.

I think realistically if somebody had said to me 15 years ago that the French National side would only have been at the level they are now, I’d have been disappointed. I think now there are two sides in the league however, that we really need to be thinking how they do make big strides forward in the next 15 years.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:10 pm  

exiled Warrior wrote:

I think (and I stand to be corrected) that until Brexit the RFL/SL could not stop Catalans from signing players form the UK under EU employment rules and I think the same applied to French players in the UK - freedom of movement and employment would stop any quota being applied. Since Brexit I assume things may have or will change once contracts signed before brexit have run down.

That seems to make sense.

It’s certainly something that we could do with looking at going forward.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:35 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I love having the French teams in superleague and I hope they’re around for a very long time. I think I’m just desperate to see the French National side improve. Maybe they have to a point because the recent performance against England wasn’t too bad in comparison to some of years gone by but England were probably missing 15+ players all in all and seemed to turn it in when they went in to a big lead early doors.

I think realistically if somebody had said to me 15 years ago that the French National side would only have been at the level they are now, I’d have been disappointed. I think now there are two sides in the league however, that we really need to be thinking how they do make big strides forward in the next 15 years.

Completely agree. The real acid test is the next few years. Catalans have laid down their marker, Toulouse to some extent have as well. It’s time now for the wider French game to kick on. I do too love having the French in SL but at the same time there has to be the long term vision to have a fully fledged French league which is both professional and profitable to sustain the (hoped) growth. Anything less and the French game just goes in peaks and troughs according to how Catalans/Toulouse are doing. We need a wider approach as opposed to a narrow one in which SL is the French’ saving grace and development vehicle.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:37 pm  

exiled Warrior wrote:

I think (and I stand to be corrected) that until Brexit the RFL/SL could not stop Catalans from signing players form the UK under EU employment rules and I think the same applied to French players in the UK - freedom of movement and employment would stop any quota being applied. Since Brexit I assume things may have or will change once contracts signed before brexit have run down.

Again I could be wrong but don’t professional sportsman have an exemption somewhere? If you look at the PL the heavy recruitment from the European mainland hasn’t subsided one iota, even after Brexit.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:18 pm  

100% Warrior wrote:

Completely agree. The real acid test is the next few years. Catalans have laid down their marker, Toulouse to some extent have as well. It’s time now for the wider French game to kick on. I do too love having the French in SL but at the same time there has to be the long term vision to have a fully fledged French league which is both professional and profitable to sustain the (hoped) growth. Anything less and the French game just goes in peaks and troughs according to how Catalans/Toulouse are doing. We need a wider approach as opposed to a narrow one in which SL is the French’ saving grace and development vehicle.

Even if the plan wasn’t a fully professional French league (but in an ideal world it should be), we at least need to get to the point where regular England vs France test matches are a viable proposition, both to provide a proper test for the England team, without relying on countries who get told what to do by the NRL and also commercially. They’ll go hand in hand if we get it right but Catalans (and down the track) need to play a huge part in that.

I look at it as a way of making up a shortfall in income from potential Cup Final and Grand Final appearances by the French clubs. I’m not one who sits and moans at the CC and GF crowds being 20k down when Catalans have been in them because it’s understandable but it wouldn’t hurt if we could pull a decent crowd in for a one off home test or test series against the French.