Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:15 am  

Jukesays wrote:

That's the 2nd time you;ve posted that kind of appraisal

I'm just going to say that I don't ever remember a Wane team - "Not being interested".
They may not have played well etc, but "Not interested" Never

I guess it's semantics. Players can play badly i.e drop balls, or things not coming off but there's games when there's a lack of fight and that is an attitude thing imo.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:35 am  

Grimmy wrote:

That's what we did in 2012, culminating in winning nowt. It's also why we ran out of steam in 2011 and didn't even make the Grand Final despite realistically being the best team that year. The system we have means that as long as you're consistent enough to make the play offs, it is all about winning knockout games. Yes we should want to win every game, but ultimately we have to play to that system. If the training load, rotation of the squad etc means that we win fewer league games but win a trophy, that's fine.

I'd say we lost in 2011 not because we ran out of steam but Maguire ran out of ideas.
In those last 2 games against Saints our attack was one dimensional and met a team determined not to let us score.
Maguire didnt appear to have a clue what to do or have that bit of magic and a maverick on the pitch to change things without thinking about the coach.
A poor end after a fantastic first season and the best CC season I've ever seen at the club.

2012 could have been different if Tomkins hadn't got his injury.

Its all about opinions. I respect yours and understand why you hold that opinion but i just have a different view I don't buy a season ticket in the hope of reaching the playoffs i buy one primarily to enjoy my 80 minutes at every game.

There are pros and cons of the playoff system the GF being the primary focus means a lot of other areas are just forgotten or where there are weaknesses just ignored. As an example the loop fixtures are a farce to the extent that say playing Warrington no longer holds that anticipation but instead its just another fixture that we dont need to win.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:14 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

I guess it's semantics. Players can play badly i.e drop balls, or things not coming off but there's games when there's a lack of fight and that is an attitude thing imo.

I'd just be interested to know what specific games they were???

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:52 pm  

I don’t think attitude in terms of fight and a willingness to hang in has been poor at any stage and I include Lams 3 years in that. These last three years we’ve been really poor to watch and confidence has looked low at times but I’ve always felt we won plenty of games on sheer doggedness and I always felt that was leftovers from the spirit and culture Wane (and Maguire before him) instilled in the place.

We had a few stinkers under Waney mind but they were always one offs. The two that stick in my mind was a game at Cas in 2017, where we got absolutely battered and I remember walking away from Catalans ground after a hiding by nearly 60 points in 2015 (I think) wondering if the players had stopped playing for him. They were soon put behind us though and were clearly just blips in the grand scheme of things.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:02 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

I'd just be interested to know what specific games they were???

Off the top of my head, Cas away in 2015 when Carney bags 3 in 10 mins. Wakey in the super 8's (can't remember the year) and we went out of the comp 32 - 0. Wane even said:

“I’m fuming with the way we finished,” said the Wigan coach, Shaun Wane. “Ask me again in a fortnight and I might recheck that as we’ve won a World Club Challenge and made the cup final – but I’m not making any excuses; we played this like a pre-season game.”

It's pretty obvious as to where this conversation is going though. It's pretty easy to paint the above as bad days at the office and you might be right. I'm not being negative for negative sake tho and the games are few and far between. It did happen however.

I'm a firm believer that good sides don't have a big gap between their worst and best performances and, if they do, it's an attitude thing. Teams lose, that's a fact of sport and they don't always play well either. They very rarely fold like a deckchair though and have whitewashed by worse sides - that's exactly what happened Vs Wakey imo.

As with most things RL related, I look at the Storm and how they go about stuff. Very rarely do they capitulate like the above examples. They lose big games, but it's almost a banker that a team has to be 'on it' to beat them whether that's Rnd1 (they hold the record for Rnd1 wins btw), Rnd 16 or the GF.

[Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy]

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:24 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Off the top of my head, Cas away in 2015 when Carney bags 3 in 10 mins. Wakey in the super 8's (can't remember the year) and we went out of the comp 32 - 0. Wane even said:

It's pretty obvious as to where this conversation is going though. It's pretty easy to paint the above as bad days at the office and you might be right. I'm not being negative for negative sake tho and the games are few and far between. It did happen tho imo.

I'm a firm believer that good sides don't have a big gap between their worst and best performances and, if they do, it's an attitude thing. Teams lose, that's a fact of sport and they don't always play well either. They very rarely fold like a deckchair though and have whitewashed by worse sides - that's exactly what happened Vs Wakey imo.

As with most things RL related, I look at the Storm and how they go about stuff. Very rarely do they capitulate like the above examples. They lose big games, but it's almost a banker that a team has to be 'on it' to beat them whether that's Rnd1 (they hold the record for Rnd1 wins btw), Rnd 16 or the GF.

That Wakey game was the only one I could think of where I thought the team didn't care under Wane.

We knew the day before we wouldn't be in the play-offs (unless we won by 90 points) and I remember saying lets see how much pride the team have. The answer on that day was little to none.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:54 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Off the top of my head, Cas away in 2015 when Carney bags 3 in 10 mins. Wakey in the super 8's (can't remember the year) and we went out of the comp 32 - 0. Wane even said:

It's pretty obvious as to where this conversation is going though. It's pretty easy to paint the above as bad days at the office and you might be right. I'm not being negative for negative sake tho and the games are few and far between. It did happen tho imo.

I'm a firm believer that good sides don't have a big gap between their worst and best performances and, if they do, it's an attitude thing. Teams lose, that's a fact of sport and they don't always play well either. They very rarely fold like a deckchair though and have whitewashed by worse sides - that's exactly what happened Vs Wakey imo.

As with most things RL related, I look at the Storm and how they go about stuff. Very rarely do they capitulate like the above examples. They lose big games, but it's almost a banker that a team has to be 'on it' to beat them whether that's Rnd1 (they hold the record for Rnd1 wins btw), Rnd 16 or the GF.

On reflection I think your right in one respect - I said "Never" - I'll give you the Wakefield game, The Cas game yeah at a push I may give you that one.
But
My point being is the original post seemed to make out Wane's time was Littered with those performances - Now if you didn't mean that fair enough
But 1 or 2 in 7 years - There's plenty of clubs who would die for that (All clubs In fact).

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:12 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

On reflection I think your right in one respect - I said "Never" - I'll give you the Wakefield game, The Cas game yeah at a push I may give you that one.
But
My point being is the original post seemed to make out Wane's time was Littered with those performances - Now if you didn't mean that fair enough
But 1 or 2 in 7 years - There's plenty of clubs who would die for that (All clubs In fact).

They definitely would. Doesn't make it right tho. I'll hold my hands up and say that I've got unrealistic standards for the performances, team and wider club tho. Just because other clubs would be happy, doesn't mean we should be.

Realistically, it's probably something in the middle btw, if not more to the side of being positive. Some really bad ones (like I've pointed out) and other games that we lost where maybe we weren't 100% right or maybe not even 75% all there.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:24 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Off the top of my head, Cas away in 2015 when Carney bags 3 in 10 mins. Wakey in the super 8's (can't remember the year) and we went out of the comp 32 - 0. Wane even said:

It's pretty obvious as to where this conversation is going though. It's pretty easy to paint the above as bad days at the office and you might be right. I'm not being negative for negative sake tho and the games are few and far between. It did happen however.

I'm a firm believer that good sides don't have a big gap between their worst and best performances and, if they do, it's an attitude thing. Teams lose, that's a fact of sport and they don't always play well either. They very rarely fold like a deckchair though and have whitewashed by worse sides - that's exactly what happened Vs Wakey imo.

As with most things RL related, I look at the Storm and how they go about stuff. Very rarely do they capitulate like the above examples. They lose big games, but it's almost a banker that a team has to be 'on it' to beat them whether that's Rnd1 (they hold the record for Rnd1 wins btw), Rnd 16 or the GF.

What about Liverpool getting beaten 7-1 by Villa the other year? or is the above only applicable to rugby league.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:26 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

They definitely would. Doesn't make it right tho. I'll hold my hands up and say that I've got unrealistic standards for the performances, team and wider club tho. Just because other clubs would be happy, doesn't mean we should be.

Realistically, it's probably something in the middle btw, if not more to the side of being positive. Some really bad ones (like I've pointed out) and other games that we lost where maybe we weren't 100% right or maybe not even 75% all there.

On what basis and why have you created these unrealistic standards?