Re: Hock : Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:38 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

Charmed life, really?

We have been losing our best players for years...Harris, Sculthorpe, Nigel Vagana, Kohe-Love, Nutley, Fozzard etc, Andy Gregory if you go back a few years. Wigan have led a far more charmed life than us in terms of being a club that signs other clubs best players far more than has their best players poached.

Boo hoo. How bloody far back do you want to go? Everyone has lost players to other clubs in British RL. That's not what we're talking about, and you know it.

Re: Hock : Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:39 pm  

I think the bottom line which most people have touched on is the leadership from the RFL (or the lack of it). We're a professional sport run by a bunch of amateurs. The only bright spark was the League of the Extraordinary campaign. For gawd's sake i hope the RFL push this harder in the build-up to next season...
I don't really have anything against Hock going to the NRL - he's done his time at Wigan and deserves a chance at the NRL. The whole ban thing may leave a bitter taste for some, but Hock wasn't that consistent in his performances last year...

Re: Hock : Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:42 pm  

Madderzahatter wrote:

but Hock wasn't that consistent in his performances last year...

Are you being serious ?

Seems the trolls are just coming in to 'put the boot in' to Wigan RLFC and nothing more.

Re: Hock : Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:25 pm  

Parramatta seem to be doing a juggling act so that they can fit Israel Folau under the Cap.
Below is a quote from Saturdays Sydney Morning Herald.

"Folau is likely to be one of the highest paid players in the NRL - but not next year. For Parramatta to accommodate him, he will have to commit to a long-term deal as the club's roster is largely settled for next season. By doing that, the Eels can back-end the contract so he receives more in the following seasons. Folau won't be badly out of pocket as it's believed he received a payout on the remaining two years of his GWS contract, which was heavily subsidised by the AFL. With English second-rower Gareth Hock also close to signing, Parramatta may have to release some players".

Re: Hock : Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:25 pm  

I feel this may be one of those "Greater good" moments. I know that we can never compete with the NRL in any time soon.

However, I do think that if there starts to be an exodus of talent (which will sadly probably have to include Sam) then the RFL might finally see it as something to worry about and start to make changes.

The main change that is needed is definitely the size of the league. The NRL only has 2 more teams and has more than double the money coming in from outside sources that we do. If thats all they can accomodate then how can we even begin to think that we can accomodate 14 teams in the long term?

Secondly there needs to be blanket changes at the top. Preferably a completely new management team.

Then we need a big change in the player's conditions. The way that sponsorships etc is frowned upon is madness. I know that its started to be relaxed slightly but there needs to be more.

For me if I had a choice between playing RL for 50k or playing RU for 50k + a car and other sponsorships like many have then I would choose RU.

We need big changes to the international scene but that wont come any time soon as the Australians arent really bothered about it it seems, much like the WCC which needs a bit of a rethink too. An end of season thing would be better than the game at the start that always means that two teams have played 1 less game until half way through the season.

I dont want the Cap to go but relaxing of it wouldnt go amiss. For example what Paramatta are supposedly doing for Folau is what we got done for with Fielden in effect. If a team is making much more money then they should be allowed to spend more money.

There needs to be REAL punishments for teams not running themselves in a satisfactory manner. If I were in control I wouldnt give a damn how famous the Bradford name is theyd be out the super league and in a lower league.

Finally we need to take our time and not expect everything at once. Im talking mostly about expansion. We need to build a heart that is stable enough to support the expansion first. Once we have 12 teams in the heartlands that are strong enough to sustain themselves if more are added then add more. Ok Catalans has been a success of sorts but London have been there for a while and arent really that stable and we all know about Crusaders. If Crusaders had been given a few more years to stabilise in the lower leagues they'd probably still be here.

Re: Hock : Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:31 pm  

stillinthepast wrote:

Parramatta seem to be doing a juggling act so that they can fit Israel Folau under the Cap.
Below is a quote from Saturdays Sydney Morning Herald.

"Folau is likely to be one of the highest paid players in the NRL - but not next year. For Parramatta to accommodate him, he will have to commit to a long-term deal as the club's roster is largely settled for next season. By doing that, the Eels can back-end the contract so he receives more in the following seasons. Folau won't be badly out of pocket as it's believed he received a payout on the remaining two years of his GWS contract, which was heavily subsidised by the AFL. With English second-rower Gareth Hock also close to signing, Parramatta may have to release some players".

if that's the case then why doesn't IL get a player or 2 instead of cash for Hock, Tim Mannah & MoiMoi would do me

Re: Hock : Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:50 pm  

Mannah & Fui are both props and if Gaz goes we will need a second rower with size, pace and skill. We have Hughes with the size and Faz is ok for pace and skill but not size. I don't know if there's a younger guy in the youth set up with Gaz's size and skill set but if there is then he might get an early promotion.

The SMH and Telegraph sites are treating Falou are already signed although he isn't apparently. The final paragraph re Gaz is the throw away for me.
It could be that Falou soaks up all the available cash under the SC leaving nothing for Gaz. The statement saying it may force players out I can't understand. At this stage those players that were OOC last season would have gone and all remaining will have contracts.
It appears Falou is nailed on but Gaz Hock is not! If it's a choice between Falou and Hock then there's only one man they're signing and it ain't Gaz!

Re: Hock : Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:55 pm  

Wouldn't mind a swap for either Willie Tonga or Ben Smith.

Re: Hock : Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:24 pm  

The fans will want players but I feel Lenagan would probably rather have the cash and that's what I expect we'll get for Hock. I really hope we go out and bring in at least a couple of players with it because we're short at the moment. I certainly think we're short of cover in the backs and if/when Hock goes we're short of power and aggression in the pack. I'd bring in a centre/utility(Sarginson or Gaskell) and try to find a big powerful forward from somewhere, i wouldn't be concerned if he was a prop or second row as long as he could punch some serious holes in defences.

If we stick with what we've got minus Hock then 2013 is a total right off imo.

Re: Hock : Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:08 am  

MattyB wrote:

Whilst Wigan bought, they also lost a few good ones (to club in the UK & Abroad) before their peak anyway......Henry Paul, Kevin Iro, Bobby Goulding, Phil Clarke and more recently to RU clubs - Jason Robinson, Chris Ashton, Joel Tomkins and Owen Farrell.

So whats the difference with Hock leaving then? Wigan managed to survive those losses as did British rugby league.

How come Phil Clarke's departure to the Roosters didn't bring British RL to its knees - Clarke was a bigger player than Hock is.