: Thu May 28, 2009 3:00 pm
Last Son of Wigan wrote:
:CLAP: Finally you have stopped moaning and continued the debate top notch.
Not sure of the first point you make in bold. Are you claiming Long has never said he wants to finish his career at Saints?
Tim Smith won a rookie of the year award and was not signed directly from the NRL he was signed from obscurity without playing a game or training in a pro environment, as he has found his feet in the pro ranks he has shown some good form. Orford has not had the same background as Smith he would be moving from pro to pro environment without all the added bagage so i think its a poor comparisson.
Both are over 30 but Orford is still younger he has just short of 2 years on Long which in real terms at there age is a significant difference, maybe not 5 years ago but certainly at this stage of there career. Given Orford had the best season of his life last year it shows the ability is still there, i do not think you can say the same about Long. If we offered Orford a 2 year deal he would only just be older than Long is now when it finishes.
Until this post you clearly have ducked the debate.
Both players are a short term 2 year fix clearly Myler is a long term option but you cannot blood them together without having a senior partner to step in when required hence why we are having this debate on the merrits of Long/Orford.
The other word of warning that would put me right off Long is this, remember the effect Millward a man dripping in honours won at Saints faired at Wigan, he failed. He failed because of the history between the 2 clubs and the part he played in it. He never ever had the dressing room, something we could not risk our 7 and leader around the pitch not to have. Attempting to have a character like Long who has for so long been an integral part of Saints and a pain in the players side in my opinion as happened with Millward, i do not think he could ever win the dressing room.
Once again you claim i have hardly ever seen him which is plain wrong.
You've just focused on Tim Smith over in the SL when I listed several Aus halfbacks. I listed more than 1 HB to prove the point.
You speak of Not blooding them together I think you're referring to Tomkins and Myler, thats why I feel and agree a senior player is needed in the mix, I counted this by many times over outlining what I would do with Sam if we signed Long/Orford and Myler.
The two year age difference between Orford and Long is irrelevant, there are many players out there who are old but yet fitter than younger players, i.e a 35yr old Menzies is still top notch.
Don't forget Millward was the coach, not a player. The coach has the final say not the number 7. Plus Long is a Wigan lad not an Aussie like Millward. It would be closer to compare Long to Gleeson, both well liked saints players who are from Wigan. Gleeson has been accepted by all at Wigan.
Also don't forget Long is quiet friendly with many Wigan lads, which would make his integration into the team smoother than Orford.
So I'm not entirely sure how your speculation that Long would causes issues as a former saints player is valid.
Oh and thank you for holding back on the insults.[/quote]
I apologise for focusing on Smith i missed off the others by accident. Monaghan was superb in his first year lost his way under Lowes somewhat but is finding his form under a good coach again. Sherwin has been a great signing for Cas despite a slow start he has guided them round the field superbly, very good player. Matt Johns was a 6.
I appreciate you have said what would do with Tomkins but in real terms it is not realistic if we sign another half. We simply cannot wish players like Roberts away, Phelps we can but not Roberts. The debate is not what we do with Tomkins it is about who we bring into the team as a half not what we do with Tomkins.
I am stunned you can claim a 2 year age gap is irrellivant especially given Longs increasing history of injury, Players like Menzies are the exception not the rule, he has been a superb pro and that is why his body is holding up, the same cannot be said for Long, and the results af this are there to see.
Long may not be the coach but he is or whoever we bring into the team as the half will be expected to be the onfield coach, Long is not well liked with the Wigan lads, he has some friends of the older guard but in the main he is not well liked. It is crucial for a pivot and leader to have the respect of all his players, Long in my opinion will not have time to earn this like he did coming through and developing as he did as a young lad signed from Widnes.
