Re: Forward watch : Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:31 pm  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Not sure on that but no way of "proving" it as such. Wayne Bennett, when it came to England/GB was lazy and ignorant. There were numerous examples of him picking players on reputation, I am absolutely convinced he didn't watch Super League games. I'd be surprised if he had heard of Morgan Knowles.

True, it's all hypothesis. However he didn't stand out during those years in Superleague either and in no way would he have got a place over the other back row options we had at that time. He would have had to displace the likes of O'Loughlin, Sam Burgess, Elliott Whitehead etc and he simply wasn't at that level. I think suggesting otherwise would be revisionist at best. Happy to agree to disagree though if you think otherwise.

Re: Forward watch : Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:59 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

True, it's all hypothesis. However he didn't stand out during those years in Superleague either and in no way would he have got a place over the other back row options we had at that time. He would have had to displace the likes of O'Loughlin, Sam Burgess, Elliott Whitehead etc and he simply wasn't at that level. I think suggesting otherwise would be revisionist at best. Happy to agree to disagree though if you think otherwise.

No you're right he wasn't. But I think had Wane been in position say 2 years earlier then the conversation re. Knowles switching from Wales would have happened sooner than it did.

Re: Forward watch : Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:28 pm  

Apologies for turning this in to another Wigan/Saints debate people.

I just see a lot of similarities with Smithies and Knowles and what they do or do not bring to a team. A comment about Smithies being a Poundland Knowles is exactly the sort of clueless comment Knowles himself would’ve faced until he started to get good press, so Saints fans are actually the last people you think you’d get it from (well maybe not).

I do think Smithies is more advanced at 21 than Knowles was but he did start in our first team a couple of years before Knowles did in theirs IIRC, so that isn’t like for like. What he needs to do now is to make sure he progresses like Knowles has. He’s on his way and I think longer term he’ll end up as captain of this club and he’ll play internationally ‘if’ he continues on the path he’s on now.

Re: Forward watch : Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:49 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Apologies for turning this in to another Wigan/Saints debate people.

I just see a lot of similarities with Smithies and Knowles and what they do or do not bring to a team. A comment about Smithies being a Poundland Knowles is exactly the sort of clueless comment Knowles himself would’ve faced until he started to get good press, so Saints fans are actually the last people you think you’d get it from (well maybe not).

I do think Smithies is more advanced at 21 than Knowles was but he did start in our first team a couple of years before Knowles did in theirs IIRC, so that isn’t like for like. What he needs to do now is to make sure he progresses like Knowles has. He’s on his way and I think longer term he’ll end up as captain of this club and he’ll play internationally ‘if’ he continues on the path he’s on now.

Mate, if you're talking about RedVee then I'd pay it little regard. I'm sure some on there think every Wigan player is 'Poundland' version of their equivalent, including Jai Field

Regarding Smithies; I think he is better than Knowles at a similar age as I've said elsewhere. That's not to say it's some glaring chasm or anything... we're talking small margins. I'm sure that Saints fans would probably disagree and that's fine too.

They are both workhorse type players (and I say that in its most positive sense) in a similar way to, say, Mick Cassidy was. I doubt either will ever take a game by the scruff of the neck in the way that a Sculthorpe, Farrell or O'Loughlin could but that's not to devalue their contributions in any way.

As you say, Smithies needs to continue this trajectory. It'll matter little if he was or wasn't better at 21 if he plateaus and doesn't go on to fulfill that potential as Knowles has.

Re: Forward watch : Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:29 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Apologies for turning this in to another Wigan/Saints debate people.

Down with this sort of thing!

Re: Forward watch : Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:31 pm  

moto748 wrote:

Down with this sort of thing!

Careful now!

Re: Forward watch : Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:41 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

Not being funny but why would you chose his 3rd game in a week, and after playing decent minutes in his second in 3 days on Monday, to question his fitness? Ellis did go well but he's just returned from a 6 week rest!

I’m bringing it up because he was absolutely goosed after 5 minutes, nobody else was like that and most had played more than Mago in the 2 games last week. I really like him with the ball in his hand, he’s hard to take down, makes good yards and is always looking for the opportunity too offload but he needs to be fit enough to do more minutes at a higher intensity imo.

Re: Forward watch : Mon Apr 25, 2022 6:07 pm  

Byrne and Smithies have taken big leaps forward this year.

Re: Forward watch : Mon Apr 25, 2022 6:29 pm  

Yes they gave. I was unconvinced about both last year, but they are really coming on.

Re: Forward watch : Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:04 pm  

NSW wrote:

Byrne and Smithies have taken big leaps forward this year.

Yeah, Iv always thought Byrne had big potential just down to his size, his handling was a bit suspect but he seems to have sorted that. I thought Smithies and Partington both had great intensity and tackling machines but lacking size and punch in attack but Smithies has started putting up decent numbers in attack now, just hope Partington can do the same.