Re: Forward watch : Mon May 09, 2022 11:34 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

I just don’t get the fuss. As you know I’ve understood the recent billing of Knowles but this lad is a prop and a prop has to go forward and he just doesn’t. Saints fans say he works extremely hard, so fair enough if that’s his strength but I don’t see anything out of the ordinary defensively. He was an aggressive so and so in academy rugby but I don’t see much of that either.

He was poor on Saturday but he's never been a metre maker. He does a particular job for the team and usually does it well. If you look at the kick pressure he places on the opposition, he works extremely hard in this area. Look at the analysis from Jon Wells after the Good Friday match where he highlights the speed of Lees in putting pressure on last tackle options.

Ive said it on another thread but Havard is the pick of the English props at the moment bar a firing Walmsley. For his age and potential that lad has the world at his feet. His footwork is superb and I say again he is the nearest English prop I've seen to an on form Thompson

Re: Forward watch : Mon May 09, 2022 12:13 pm  

Stu M wrote:

He was poor on Saturday but he's never been a metre maker. He does a particular job for the team and usually does it well. If you look at the kick pressure he places on the opposition, he works extremely hard in this area. Look at the analysis from Jon Wells after the Good Friday match where he highlights the speed of Lees in putting pressure on last tackle options.

Ive said it on another thread but Havard is the pick of the English props at the moment bar a firing Walmsley. For his age and potential that lad has the world at his feet. His footwork is superb and I say again he is the nearest English prop I've seen to an on form Thompson

That’s all well and good on Lees but if that’s the highlight of his game, I don’t think he warrants some of the billing he gets. The reported NRL links interest me. Being good at applying kick pressure won’t be enough in that league if he’s not making ground forward with the ball and as a prop it’s your bread and butter.

As for Havard, he’s a top young player. There are areas of his game that concern me a little in terms of him going to the absolute top but he is improving. It’s just areas around intensity and aggression but he’s getting better in that regard. Saturday was much better than Good Friday from him in terms of him keeping our tempo up when he came on but there’s still work to do. If he gets there though, we could be talking about him as one of the best props on either side of the world (a long way to go yet though).

Re: Forward watch : Mon May 09, 2022 12:26 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

That’s all well and good on Lees but if that’s the highlight of his game, I don’t think he warrants some of the billing he gets. The reported NRL links interest me. Being good at applying kick pressure won’t be enough in that league if he’s not making ground forward with the ball and as a prop it’s your bread and butter.

As for Havard, he’s a top young player. There are areas of his game that concern me a little in terms of him going to the absolute top but he is improving. It’s just areas around intensity and aggression but he’s getting better in that regard. Saturday was much better than Good Friday from him in terms of him keeping our tempo up when he came on but there’s still work to do. If he gets there though, we could be talking about him as one of the best props on either side of the world (a long way to go yet though).

I agree that Lees doesn't make the yards that you'd expect a prop to make. However to be fair to him he has had a couple of really bad injuries which has set him back massively. His ruptured bowel in 2019 was a horrific injury, the Consultant who performed the op said that you normally only see such injuries in very serious road accidents. It nearly finished his career and he lost a lot of weight.

The following year he then did his ankle/achilles and was out for 3 months, just as he was finding some form.

He definitely needs some more size on him, it remains to be seen if he can do this.

Re: Forward watch : Mon May 09, 2022 2:56 pm  

Stu M wrote:

He was poor on Saturday but he's never been a metre maker. He does a particular job for the team and usually does it well. If you look at the kick pressure he places on the opposition, he works extremely hard in this area. Look at the analysis from Jon Wells after the Good Friday match where he highlights the speed of Lees in putting pressure on last tackle options.

Ive said it on another thread but Havard is the pick of the English props at the moment bar a firing Walmsley. For his age and potential that lad has the world at his feet. His footwork is superb and I say again he is the nearest English prop I've seen to an on form Thompson

Sounds like Tony Clubb

Re: Forward watch : Mon May 09, 2022 7:45 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Other than knowing they won, we won’t get stats for a cup game. It’s a shame as I’d be interested to look at one or two players stats. Not much has been said about how quiet Walmsley was and Matty Lees was borderline invisible (not sure I’ve seen a more overrated prop in my days tbh).

Thats a shame, I had a quick look online and, sure enough, there stats gallore for the Bet Fred Super League but nothing for the CC.

I'd guess that the club would have recorded its own stats but are they available?

Re: Forward watch : Mon May 09, 2022 8:04 pm  

Simba16 wrote:

Thats a shame, I had a quick look online and, sure enough, there stats gallore for the Bet Fred Super League but nothing for the CC.

I'd guess that the club would have recorded its own stats but are they available?

Not that I’m aware of, the only place I ever find them is on the superleague site.

We’ll just have to take the main stat from this game. Winners=Wigan

Re: Forward watch : Tue May 10, 2022 12:16 am  

It's a shame that the RFL CBA to publish stats. What with the money they make from the Challenge Cup and all.

Didn't they say a million people watched it? Some of them might have been interested.

Re: Forward watch : Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:03 am  

Mike Cooper 11 carries for 105m 19 tackles.

No other wire forward got near 100m

Re: Forward watch : Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:13 am  

Cas away

Singleton 8 for 70m 19 tackles

Ellis 8 for 61m 30 tackles

Byrne 7 for 82m 19 tackles

Mago 10 for 91m 9 tackles

Havard 19 for 123m 21 tackles

Partington 16 for 120m 23 tackles


Surely Partington best numbers in his senior career. Shows how the bench changed the game.

Not many prop forward groups I’d swap for our guys in the league this season. Probably top 3/4 group (Saints, Catalan, Hull probably up there).

Was probably bottom 2/3 last year.

Re: Forward watch : Sun Jun 05, 2022 11:19 am  

I’d be sad to see Ollie P leave. The lad is Wigan through and through but you can’t keep them all I suppose. You add Cooper in to the mix next season and it’s as good a prop rotation as I can remember us having for a long while. They’ll be fighting each other and you can already see that. It was a statement performance from Partington and on that form why couldn’t he got for Mago’s place, Byrne’s place etc. He spoke so well after the game as well, saying how by him playing well, it can hopefully force others to do so and if he still doesn’t get picked then so be it and he’ll still be doing a job.