Re: When did it start to go wrong? : Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:45 pm  

Jeff the God of Biscuits wrote:

Are we forgetting that Shaun Wane won the double less than 2 years ago? I know we were hammered tonight but lets not go overboard with such nonsense as he's 'limited' or 'the players don't want to play for him'. The first is simple conjecture and knee jerk reaction, the second is unfounded nonsense.

The same things people are criticizing in this thread are the same things Wigan's success has been built on the last 5 years or so; a good, talented crop of Wigan born and bred lads, with a couple others from overseas and other clubs sprinkled in.

We showed very limited glimpses tonight that Wigan can trouble teams when it clicks. It was the same against Hull KR, for the period before and after the break we were almost unplayable. We have a good, young team. A team capable to beat anyone on their day, a couple of bad results doesn't change that.

Don't forget we've got a new half back partnership this year and our inspirational captain is out for a month or so. Look at Saints tonight, they struggled against a poor Wakefield side [A side that was murdered by Widnes 5 days ago], albeit they won, but they haven't performed anywhere near their potential, and probably won't until they get their first choice 6 & 7 back.

I can honestly say I'm not worried. The last couple of performances remind me of the 3 or 4 games between the CC final and grand final in 2013. Go back and watch those games and see the lack of effort and disjointedness of the team. Something tells me we're holding back, because we're going to have to go full tilt between August and October. I might be wrong, but I'll wait and see how we front up against Leeds & Saints in the next month before I go into crisis mode.

MM team won the double two years ago.. but they had already slipped under Wane...

Re: When did it start to go wrong? : Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:46 pm  

[list=][/list]

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Very very harsh and this eulogy of Maguire at the moment is becoming ridiculous. His second season ended in a damp squib even with a substantially improved squad. We lost twice on the bounce to saints in the play offs and at no time did we look like we had any inkling on how to change the game when we were very much second best. How many kids did he bring through????
Agree with your last sentence.

Faz and Charnley.

He brought through what he needed and that's the way it should be. Both of the youngsters he signed improved the side.

It's laughable that you idolise Wane but have so little respect for arguably the best coach on the planet.

Re: When did it start to go wrong? : Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:52 pm  

Ziggy Stardust wrote:

MM team won the double two years ago.. but they had already slipped under Wane...

Players who played in the double finals who made their debut under SW:

Thornle
Green
Smith
Flower
Dudson
Taylor

Players who played in the double finals who made their debut prior to MM:

Tomkins
Goulding
Richards
McIllorum
Hansen
Mossop
O'Loughlin
Tuson

How you can say that was MM's team is beyond me, most of the players he signed; Deacon, Lima, Hoffman, Finch etc had all left at this point. What an odd comment to make.

Re: When did it start to go wrong? : Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:57 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

[list=][/list]Faz and Charnley.

He brought through what he needed and that's the way it should be. Both of the youngsters he signed improved the side.

It's laughable that you idolise Wane but have so little respect for arguably the best coach on the planet.

We can't belittle Maguire, he was incredible for us and he's an amazing coach.

On the same hand lets not play down Wanes achievements! He has contended with far more then Madge ever had to and won things with teams with lower quality players in them. Madge raised our levels here to what they should have been based on the quality of squad we had but Wane has actually over achieved at times IMO.

He's far from perfect but I find it staggering he could be written off so soon.

Re: When did it start to go wrong? : Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:02 am  

For me its simple where we're going wrong and quite simple how we correct it

All we need to do is control our aggression and the ruck rather than the current reckless game plan we seem to be adopting.

Poor coaching has caused us to lose focus around the ruck area, and in our aggression. How many times over the past few weeks have we seen our players fly in, attempting the big hit, only to fail and either ricochet off another player, give away a cheap needless penalty, or help create a gap in our defence for the opposition to exploit?

This is leading our defence to be unstructured, us constantly scrambling in defence, players being out of position, and wasting energy so that when we get the ball we make silly errors!

Wane's 'beat em up', reckless aggression is not working, not least cause we're not actually big enough as a team to assert dominance! All we need to do is go back to basics!

Look at how souths controlled the game against st Helens, and you'll realise not too long ago we used to play like that. Problem is, we're not now controlling the ruck because we're attempting to be overly aggressive and constantly flying in on our defence.

Go back to the basics - strong 3 men tackles, wrestling to position the player and slow the PTB as we did under madge, will give the defence time to set its structure and stop us running around like a pub team, with no structure or plan, trying to put in the stupid one big hit which we somehow think will assert our dominance!

Do this, and we will win games! We have the talent, capability and skill but poor coaching is causing the problem at the moment!

Being reckless / creating mayhem and having a free reign (as per his much publicised speech) doesn't cut it and we simply need to be cleverer than this as teams are currently exploiting every weakness there ever was with this tactic! RL is a simple game - control the ruck and be clever with ball in hand.....we have the talent to do the latter, but our poor defensive strategy is leading to us not only giving ball away and leaking tries, but taking the juice out our plays when we need it!!!!

Re: When did it start to go wrong? : Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:03 am  

At Bradford after Smith laid the foundations as a clack Elliot took the glory and Noble rode the wave despite being ridiculously average as a coach.

I feel Maguire did a stunning job at Wigan Wane has ridden the wave and momentum but now as it wears off this is his team. At the moment he is not good enough. Skill level is shocking mentality is wrong and recruitment has been shocking.

As for youth...what is the obsession with Wiganers?! We need a winning team not a team full of kids!

Young players should earn the right by taking shirts off the older players backs by performing not just getting given them because they were born in the town.

Our chairman talks about Wigan as a global brand but we are currently ruled by a very insular mentality.

Re: When did it start to go wrong? : Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:04 am  

Jeff the God of Biscuits wrote:

Players who played in the double finals who made their debut under SW:

Thornle
Green
Smith
Flower
Dudson
Taylor

Players who played in the double finals who made their debut prior to MM:

Tomkins
Goulding
Richards
McIllorum
Hansen
Mossop
O'Loughlin
Tuson

How you can say that was MM's team is beyond me, most of the players he signed; Deacon, Lima, Hoffman, Finch etc had all left at this point. What an odd comment to make.

They are Players that played under MM systems and won trophies.

All of them

None of them world beaters when he arrived.

They are MM team as they played under his rules even when SW was coach

SW stated he will change the way we play

Certainly did that..losing all the time

Now we have an idiot ego maniac in charge

Souths have the best coach in the world

SW Decided his methods were not good enough

Hmmm

Re: When did it start to go wrong? : Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:09 am  

Ziggy Stardust wrote:

They are Players that played under MM systems and won trophies.

All of them

None of them world beaters when he arrived.

They are MM team as they played under his rules even when SW was coach

SW stated he will change the way we play

Certainly did that..losing all the time

Now we have an idiot ego maniac in charge

Souths have the best coach in the world

SW Decided his methods were not good enough

Hmmm

So he's only changed the methods now we didn't win anything in 2014? Have a day off mate, you can't have it both ways. Either SW gets all the credit and all the blame for anything since MM left or MM gets all the credit and all the blame.

To say we only won because of MM and only lose because of SW is an asinine argument.

Re: When did it start to go wrong? : Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:11 am  

Ziggy Stardust wrote:

Yep and he's gone downhill since then as well, so your comment is justified.

Well thought through.
He's a god and can't do no wrong.
I'm such an arris for missing that.

Re: When did it start to go wrong? : Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:15 am  

Jeff the God of Biscuits wrote:

So he's only changed the methods now we didn't win anything in 2014? Have a day off mate, you can't have it both ways. Either SW gets all the credit and all the blame for anything since MM left or MM gets all the credit and all the blame.

To say we only won because of MM and only lose because of SW is an asinine argument.

Nah...he publicly stated we will play a different way this season.

At least he was honest with that.