Re: Wardle : Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:18 pm  

Moe syslak wrote:

I got shot down for this on the wire board, but I think King would make a very good second rower. He played there a couple of times for us and I thought he looked good. He is FAR too slow to be a top quality centre and he gets exposed a bit defensively. However, he makes good yards running the ball in hard and straight, plus he can get an offload away. His speed would also be perfectly acceptable for someone playing in the back row.

I think history shows that very few centres successfully make the change into the backrow?

My initial thoughts are that at Wigan they are very few and far between. The exception to this was Bill Ashurst in the 70's. He was very aggressive for a centre and he made the move almost flawlessly.

King has made a steady start but hasn't for me shown any "classic" attributes for the position a la Carmont, Gleeson or even Goulding. It's early doors so hoping that with time he will improve, particularly in his partnership with his winger.

Wardle I think has a bit of pace but seems to lack a bit of confidence and his work rate isn't particularly great.

The next 3 games will I suspect give us more of an insight to both players.

Re: Wardle : Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:41 pm  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

it might be a small sample size, but if we say 4 games, a quarter of those he was good, and three quarters he was bloody terrible(see the first game with fans in v huddersfield in 2021 when kenny edwards tore him a new butt hole) i'd say that was a fairly good indicator, even on a small sample size.

*pew pew*

By that logic, if he played 10 minutes and was good for only 2 1/2 of them then the conclusion is he must be bad. A small sample size is a small sample size and no amount of breaking it down into percentages or fractions alters that. You also don't seem to have taken into consideration that he was being shoehorned into a position, not one he had had a chance to train for, have a preseason for or in any way prepare for. Your conclusion is flawed at best and biased at worst. It certainly isn't reasoned.

That said, I have no Idea if he'd make a good 2nd row or not (neither do you) and I'm certainly not arguing that he would. He has certain attributes that suggest he would but that means nothing if he wasn't able to apply them. Time...and by time, I don't mean 4 games... would ultimately tell.

Re: Wardle : Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:46 pm  

Correct. He has, however, had a lot more than 4 games at centre and has yet to prove he’s anything other than a mediocre one….so you bette hope he does make a decent second rower.

Quick, elusive, able to draw a man, good hands - they’d be the main attributes I’d want from a centre (as well as defence). King doesn’t tick any of those boxes.

Re: Wardle : Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:55 pm  

ratticusfinch wrote:

Correct. He has, however, had a lot more than 4 games at centre and has yet to prove he’s anything other than a mediocre one….so you bette hope he does make a decent second rower.

Quick, elusive, able to draw a man, good hands - they’d be the main attributes I’d want from a centre (as well as defence). King doesn’t tick any of those boxes.

We don't really need to hope for anything other than he has a decent season for us, if not he's back to Wire with no hard feelings on our part.

Re: Wardle : Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:05 pm  

ratticusfinch wrote:

Correct. He has, however, had a lot more than 4 games at centre and has yet to prove he’s anything other than a mediocre one….so you bette hope he does make a decent second rower.

Quick, elusive, able to draw a man, good hands - they’d be the main attributes I’d want from a centre (as well as defence). King doesn’t tick any of those boxes.

Didn't Gene Miles go from centre to second row, then back to centre upon joining us? Of course his winger helped a bit.
I think both our new centres need more time yet.

Re: Wardle : Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:03 pm  

Ben Westwood was a centre who didn't have much pace or passing ability. He turned out OK after switching to the second row.

Re: Wardle : Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:31 pm  

Didn't Gareth Ellis start out as a centre?

Re: Wardle : Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:41 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

Didn't Gareth Ellis start out as a centre?

Ellis at Wakefield played centre, secondrow loose and also stand off.

Did all pretty well. Very special player.

Centre and secondrow are very similar positions in regards a lot of elements Isa was a specialist centre at one time too.

Wardle could go well there he has the attributes to however I believe he wants to be a centre for the foreseeable.

Re: Wardle : Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:46 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

I think history shows that very few centres successfully make the change into the backrow?

My initial thoughts are that at Wigan they are very few and far between. The exception to this was Bill Ashurst in the 70's. He was very aggressive for a centre and he made the move almost flawlessly.

King has made a steady start but hasn't for me shown any "classic" attributes for the position a la Carmont, Gleeson or even Goulding. It's early doors so hoping that with time he will improve, particularly in his partnership with his winger.

Wardle I think has a bit of pace but seems to lack a bit of confidence and his work rate isn't particularly great.

The next 3 games will I suspect give us more of an insight to both players.

chris mckenna, dean bell, ellery hanley.....there are literally loads

Re: Wardle : Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:59 pm  

ratticusfinch wrote:

Correct. He has, however, had a lot more than 4 games at centre and has yet to prove he’s anything other than a mediocre one….so you bette hope he does make a decent second rower.

Quick, elusive, able to draw a man, good hands - they’d be the main attributes I’d want from a centre (as well as defence). King doesn’t tick any of those boxes.

But he does have a good offload, is excellent under the high ball, is pretty solid defensively and makes metres for fun. All attributes that would suggest he'd go well at 2nd row. Which is pretty much all that was said in the first place. (pew pew)