[DaveO]

Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:16 pm  

wiganermike wrote:

The clause in the contract was to stop Sam or his agent either approaching other clubs or being approached directly by other clubs during the 3 years. Nothing would stop any club that wanted to try to sign from approaching Wigan and making the club an offer and asking for permission to speak to Sam once an offer of compensation (transfer fee) had been accepted by the club. With the clause in place any interested club has to go through the Wigan club to get permission to approach him. The clause was only put in the contract to prevent him from being put on the market for a move without the knowledge of the Wigan club and without them being willing to let him be transferred.

That may be possible given the way the contract was worded but that wasn't how it was sold to the fans by the club and I do not think that was what the club itself intended. It was to make sure he was a Wigan player for at least three years. As simple as that.

I am not suggesting that he has been, is or will be in talks with any club about a transfer (I don't know him or anyone connected to him). I am just saying that the clause in his contract doesn't mean that he can't leave before the 3 years are up.

Given what you say it would have to be Wigan who decided to release him from the three year part of the deal and IL would have zero credibility with the fans if he did that. Sam is actually contracted for five years not three so if in either of the last two years of that he was approached and wanted out Wigan would still be entitled to compensation. Given that is the case I can't see any reason for Wigan to agree to him leaving at this point in time.

In fact whatever amount of compensation was offered at any time before the five years is up (because it aint going to be silly money) Wigan still ought to take a view if the club is not better served by keeping him for the full five years and him walking away for free at the end of it.

If he helps us get to a CC final which according to IL is worth about £250K to the club then losing him early and being also-rans in that competition is going to take a heck of a lot of money I don't think will be on offer to compensate.

Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:18 pm  

wiganermike wrote:

The clause in the contract was to stop Sam or his agent either approaching other clubs or being approached directly by other clubs during the 3 years. Nothing would stop any club that wanted to try to sign from approaching Wigan and making the club an offer and asking for permission to speak to Sam once an offer of compensation (transfer fee) had been accepted by the club. With the clause in place any interested club has to go through the Wigan club to get permission to approach him. The clause was only put in the contract to prevent him from being put on the market for a move without the knowledge of the Wigan club and without them being willing to let him be transferred. The clause means that Sam and his agent would only know of any negotiation about a potential transfer once a transfer fee acceptable to Wigan has been put forward by the interested club. This means Wigan are in a strong position to get the fee they want whilst the clause is active. If clubs were allowed to approach the player and his agent directly then offers could come in that whilst very good for the player (and agent) were not providing the required level of compensation to Wigan. Such offers whilst not acceptable for Wigan could (and probably would) turn the player's head meaning that he would then tell the club he didn't want to stay and Wigan are faced with either having someone who doesn't want to stay (and possibly is unhappy with them rejecting the offer) or with having to accept a very poor level of compensation for losing their star player part way through a long contract. The clause is there to avoid such a situation occurring rather than preventing any transfer occurring.

I am not suggesting that he has been, is or will be in talks with any club about a transfer (I don't know him or anyone connected to him). I am just saying that the clause in his contract doesn't mean that he can't leave before the 3 years are up.

Unless you or anyone else on here has seen the contract or knows the stipulations of the contract it's all hearsay. i've heard the same things as everyone else regarding it being 'watertight', but who actually knows the ins and outs of the contract?

Personally, and this is just an opinion, he'll stay for another two seasons then say bye.

Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:22 pm  

DaveO wrote:

It would be monumentally stupid for the club to rip up a "watertight" contract. No one would trust a word the club says again and season ticket sales would fall through the floor.

They are going to have a hard time selling them as it is given the squad for next year compered to this. Sell Sam and they may as well apply to join NL1 !!

It's not black and white. And 'watertight' in terms of a contract is debatable. Have you seen the ins and outs of the contract for yourself? Probably not. Has IL disregarded contracts before? Yes, many times over, so if the right deal came in for Sam before the 3yrs is up are Wigan going to ignore it? If the offer on the table is too difficult to resist the club then will discuss the situation with Sam.
Its business. the club, IL are far from 'monumentally stupid' hence why they would also review each offer which game their way. Hence Lima leaving early etc...

[DaveO]

Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:06 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

It's not black and white. And 'watertight' in terms of a contract is debatable. Have you seen the ins and outs of the contract for yourself? Probably not. Has IL disregarded contracts before? Yes, many times over, so if the right deal came in for Sam before the 3yrs is up are Wigan going to ignore it? If the offer on the table is too difficult to resist the club then will discuss the situation with Sam.
Its business. the club, IL are far from 'monumentally stupid' hence why they would also review each offer which game their way. Hence Lima leaving early etc...

The only thing you and I have heard about the contract is that it is supposedly watertight so as you are in no more privvy to the details than anyone else your not in a position to imply it is no different to any other contract are you?

Given the publicity of it being watertight I think it is highly unlikely IL will treat it as any other run of the mill deal either. He will have a lot of explaining to do if he does to the press, fans and the RFL who I thought were instrumental in us getting a deal to keep Sam as regards our salary cap.

That puts terminating this contract into a whole different ball park than any other contract no matter how it is actually worded. Publicising a contract as watertight when it isn't is idiotic. They either wanted him here for three years and went out of their way to secure that or they may as well not have bothered. As I said above wasn't there supposed to be all sorts of special arrangements made to accommodate this contract under our salary cap? It is unrealistic to countenance the idea the club does all this and then rips it up after two out of three years. If they do then yes, they would be monumentally stupid in my opinion. The whole charade would have been a complete waste of time.

Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:29 pm  

DaveO wrote:

The only thing you and I have heard about the contract is that it is supposedly watertight so as you are in no more privvy to the details than anyone else your not in a position to imply it is no different to any other contract are you?

Given the publicity of it being watertight I think it is highly unlikely IL will treat it as any other run of the mill deal either. He will have a lot of explaining to do if he does to the press, fans and the RFL who I thought were instrumental in us getting a deal to keep Sam as regards our salary cap.

That puts terminating this contract into a whole different ball park than any other contract no matter how it is actually worded. Publicising a contract as watertight when it isn't is idiotic. They either wanted him here for three years and went out of their way to secure that or they may as well not have bothered. As I said above wasn't there supposed to be all sorts of special arrangements made to accommodate this contract under our salary cap? It is unrealistic to countenance the idea the club does all this and then rips it up after two out of three years. If they do then yes, they would be monumentally stupid in my opinion. The whole charade would have been a complete waste of time.

No I haven't see the contract, neither have you, that's the whole point.
Which means it could literally feature anything which none of us know about. My point is anything could happen. I feel Sam will be here till 2014 then go. But there's no guarantees.

Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:37 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

No I haven't see the contract, neither have you, that's the whole point.
Which means it could literally feature anything which none of us know about. My point is anything could happen. I feel Sam will be here till 2014 then go. But there's no guarantees.

I agree, I think that Sam will be at Wigan for two more seasons. He will then move on to new challenges and the club will receive the biggest transfer fee in RL history.

Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:42 pm  

Sweaty Betty's wrote:

I agree, I think that Sam will be at Wigan for two more seasons. He will then move on to new challenges and the club will receive the biggest transfer fee in RL history.

Like I said in an earlier post, anything can happen, but I think a move to Union to Sarries is on the card for 2014.

For the sake of RL, I'd like to see other stars of our game promoted in the media, otherwise losing RL golden boy to RU would be massive kick in the d!ick for our game.

[DaveO]

Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:42 am  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

No I haven't see the contract, neither have you, that's the whole point.
Which means it could literally feature anything which none of us know about. My point is anything could happen. I feel Sam will be here till 2014 then go. But there's no guarantees.

I think the fact it was promoted as watertight deal and the lengths gone to by not just Wigan to make it so mean the idea "anything could happen" as in him not seeing out the three year deal is incredibly unlikely. On a par with him being flattened by a piano falling from a building. It is not just an ordinary contract and we know this because of what was said at the time.

One of the things said by IL was:

"It shows the strength of the sport and the Wigan Club that we are able to invest in such an exceptional player within the Salary Cap. I am fully aware of Rugby Union's interest in Sam, however it gives me great pride that we are able to retain and reward one of the Sports brightest talents."

He will look ridiculous if in fact he ends up failing to retain him for the three years.

Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:13 am  

I genuinely believe Sam will go to the NRL rather than Union, hopefully Souths. Earning a massive transfer fee, playing in the best rugby competition of any code in the world and earning a huge wage and living in Oz, why Union. rubbish England, risk of losing his reputation if he doesnt convert, learning a new game from scratch. I dont think RL will lose the best talent this country has produced for years. He'll want to test himself against the best, and thats the NRL.

Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:14 am  

DaveO wrote:

I think the fact it was promoted as watertight deal and the lengths gone to by not just Wigan to make it so mean the idea "anything could happen" as in him not seeing out the three year deal is incredibly unlikely. On a par with him being flattened by a piano falling from a building. It is not just an ordinary contract and we know this because of what was said at the time.

One of the things said by IL was:

"It shows the strength of the sport and the Wigan Club that we are able to invest in such an exceptional player within the Salary Cap. I am fully aware of Rugby Union's interest in Sam, however it gives me great pride that we are able to retain and reward one of the Sports brightest talents."

He will look ridiculous if in fact he ends up failing to retain him for the three years.

You keep missing my point. I agree with all which you have heard, as I've heard the same. The point is anything can happen with contracts, nothing is a certainty. Never has been, never will be.