Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:51 pm  

cadoo wrote:

From what I've seen Lauaki has plenty of aggression, strong going forward and can find an offload. I thought the bloke was destined for great things when I saw him tear apart St.helens on his debut. He looked very motivated, but I can imagine after years of playing under Agar that motivation will have dropped.

However Lauaki is not fit enough and not motivated enough in defence. He isn't mobile enough on his own line and makes some very poor reads. Mark Bitcom can get the bloke fit and playing in a disciplined defensive system may bring out the best in him. It will be interesting to see how it works.

My only qualms is just the contrast in signing we've made. Ryan Hoffman a ready made, top international quality second row forward one year. And then a 27-year old who needs work on. When we sign players who are 27 I expect them to be matured and able to slot into the side like Hoffman. Someone like Gil Dudson is someone who can be worked with and I can accept that, but a 27 year old that needs a lot of work? Just a massive contrast from our last signings.

Lets be honest, the only reason we were able to sign Hoffman was because of the Melbourne situation. We won't be making signings like that for a long, long time.

Anyway, we don't need to sign top class players and get a poor deal on them...

Was Leuluai top class when we signed him? How about Coley? Carmont?

Hopefully our coaching staff can work some magic on these new signings. Fitness shouldn't be an issue, Bitcon will have a full pre-season with them.

Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:09 pm  

Paul Youane wrote:

True, its not as though Wigan's biggest two rivals for the league have each gone out and recruited Aussie international second rows for next season.

Which is excellent for them, but they will have paid through the nose for them given the increase in their value in Australia so it will be interesting to see how it affects the balance of the squad.

Secondrow was/is not a position we need to prioritise in where as perhaps other teams you mention potentially do.

We will hopefully be spending in other areas where our team needs strengthening.

Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:31 pm  

Paul Youane wrote:

True, its not as though Wigan's biggest two rivals for the league have each gone out and recruited Aussie international second rows for next season.

Hansen, Farrell, Hock, Lockers etc. all do just as good a job as an aussie coming in and yet get paid a lot less. All came through our academy, I know which I would rather have. Hansen has actually been outperforming Hoffman recently and Lockers has been class all year.

I don't think a top class backrower can have as big an impact as a top class centre, HB or FB IMO.

The Hoff has been world-class at times this year but his position does not allow him to have as big an influence as Finch can be in some games, or Carmont for that matter.

Don't get me wrong, I would love for the Hoff to stay and I am chuffed to see class like Waterhouse coming to the league, but I think we already have good backrowers in this country, I reckon Westwood will outplay him next season.

Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:27 pm  

Guerrier wrote:

Not the expense of a local lad I presume

yea.... we are giving him a 1 year contract and moving the local lad into a position he will be cruelly exposed in.

Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:22 pm  

Odem wrote:

Lets be honest, the only reason we were able to sign Hoffman was because of the Melbourne situation. We won't be making signings like that for a long, long time.

Anyway, we don't need to sign top class players and get a poor deal on them...

Was Leuluai top class when we signed him? How about Coley? Carmont?

Hopefully our coaching staff can work some magic on these new signings. Fitness shouldn't be an issue, Bitcon will have a full pre-season with them.

Brett Finch, Jeff Lima and Ryan Hoffman were top class signings. The Melbourne situation helped, but that is the standard we should be looking at. Signings of that quality should be signed when we can. I don't think we should drop our standards when players of that quality aren't available and this season our rivals have signed players of Hoffman's standards - Anthony Laffranchi at Saints and Trent Waterhouse at Warrington. If they can do it why can't we?

I don't believe anyone will truly believe we don't need to sign top class players. We should always be aiming for the best. We don't want a poor deal on them, but I wouldn't say Hoffman, Finch or Lima have been a poor deal. Top players deserve to get paid good money. We have cap space available - why waste it on a someone like Lauaki who needs so much work done in his game and he's 27? As you argue we shouldn't sign top players and get a poor deal, I don't think we should waste cap space on poor players. The better value for money are the Ryan Hoffman's, the Brett Finch's, the Jeff Lima's who are ready made top quality players.

Leuluai was young and had potential. I have no problem with that. I think he was 21 when we signed him? Lauaki is 27. George Carmont was a top grade NRL player who slotted in superbly. Andy Coley has improved whilst at Wigan no doubt, but he didn't need half the work that Lauaki does. And he wasn't a quota player either.

The argument that our coaching staff can wave a magic wand and change these players is a little frivolous. Remember, Karl Pryce and Feka Paleaasina worked under the same coaching staff and that still didn't make much difference.

I'm frustrated we've signed someone like Lauaki. I don't think he is a good signing as he is. He certainly needs a vast amount of improvement to get anywhere near the first team. At 27 I would have hoped a player would not have needed so much improvement. I feel sorry for Shaun Wane because he wont have the side Madge had, but will be expected to do just as well.

Regardless Lauaki has signed. Welcome to Wigan.

Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:36 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I think as a club theres nothing wrong with signing the odd 'project' in terms of a player that has ability that you think you can bring out by working with them.

Yes, but at 27 years old? A Gil Dudson is someone you can work with at his age. Jamie Ellis at Hull FC, Chris Hill at Warrington - I can understand that, but a quota player at 27?

Our track record with project players isn't great either. Tim Smith? Karl Pryce? Richie Mathers (to an extent). Even the maverick Cameron Phelps. All very average players who it just didn't work out with. I genuinely can't think of any 'project' signings we've made who have worked out.

What ever happened to signing players who were already quality and could slot into the first team?

Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:37 am  

In wane we trust

Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:09 am  

cadoo wrote:

Yes, but at 27 years old? A Gil Dudson is someone you can work with at his age. Jamie Ellis at Hull FC, Chris Hill at Warrington - I can understand that, but a quota player at 27?

Our track record with project players isn't great either. Tim Smith? Karl Pryce? Richie Mathers (to an extent). Even the maverick Cameron Phelps. All very average players who it just didn't work out with. I genuinely can't think of any 'project' signings we've made who have worked out.

What ever happened to signing players who were already quality and could slot into the first team?

Billy McGinty, Neil Cowie, Terry O'Connor, Martin Hall ...

Another era, I know, but they were all 'nobodies' when Wigan signed them, and not all in the first flush of youth. They went on to become stars, or at the very least to hold their own comfortably in a great side.

TODD CARNEY !!!!! : Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:30 am  

Todd carney has been released by the sydney roosters a year early from his contract ??? apparantly the catalans wanted him,but couldnt fit him under their salary cap ! so wigan have signed him as a direct replacement 4 deakin...who will take up his coachinr role option.........good move r bad..?????? i think hes a terrific attacking player.thoughts.....

Re: TODD CARNEY !!!!! : Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:33 am  

Link? Proof? Evidence?