Re: Another Big Game....Another Awful Performance : Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:43 am  

With the players out on the field that was no doubt the worst performance of the season.
Lack of passion? No, probably too much to be honest. All week it was talk our 'our derby' this 'my Derby' that!! What an anti-climax. Tomkins was dire, one of the worst Ive ever seen him play, Sarginson? I'd get him on a plane myself. Smith? Pfft. Our kicking game was a disgrace and lack of attacking ideas in their twenty was just as bad as its been all year.

For once I thought the forwards did their job, getting us into good field position, but time and time again we were let down by the backs.

In my thirty five years watching this club this team is one of the worst attacking teams I've seen.
It would be interesting to know how many tries scored this season have come through ball in hand and how many by kicks to the corners/grubbers.

I'm sure someone said before the game that our average for points scored this season was 14. That's just woeful. Reading this board the sands of time for SW are running out unless things turn around quick, regardless of the injuries suffered. Wigan fans want entertainment as well as results. We're not getting either at the moment.

Re: Another Big Game....Another Awful Performance : Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:34 am  

We need a new identity. This whole "we're more aggressive than you and gonna hit harder than you" is old school, out-dated, boring and isn't working. Too often it either ends in close, dull affairs or the other team just run around us.

We have fast outside backs that never get a chance. We have one of the best catchers of a high ball in the league that never gets a chance to show it in attack because every kick goes to ground. We have one of the most exciting young halves in RL but he has no runners or any sort of options. And we have arguably the best FB in the league who would rather cry about every decision than try and show some attacking flair. They are all being stifled in one way or another to the detriment of our team.

Re: Another Big Game....Another Awful Performance : Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:24 pm  

MattyB wrote:

With the players out on the field that was no doubt the worst performance of the season.
Lack of passion? No, probably too much to be honest. All week it was talk our 'our derby' this 'my Derby' that!! What an anti-climax. Tomkins was dire, one of the worst Ive ever seen him play, Sarginson? I'd get him on a plane myself. Smith? Pfft. Our kicking game was a disgrace and lack of attacking ideas in their twenty was just as bad as its been all year.

For once I thought the forwards did their job, getting us into good field position, but time and time again we were let down by the backs.

In my thirty five years watching this club this team is one of the worst attacking teams I've seen.
It would be interesting to know how many tries scored this season have come through ball in hand and how many by kicks to the corners/grubbers.

I'm sure someone said before the game that our average for points scored this season was 14. That's just woeful. Reading this board the sands of time for SW are running out unless things turn around quick, regardless of the injuries suffered. Wigan fans want entertainment as well as results. We're not getting either at the moment.

Agreed, I've watched Wigan since the mid 80s, the style of rugby played is just as poor as it was under Noble. No shortage of effort or passion, just a lack of ideas and flair. It's tedious to watch the same move, the players must surely feel embarrassed running the same move with no variation? When you do the same thing, expect the same outcome, we are predictable and easy to defend against. Despite Wane telling us several times over the past few years that they have some new moves and attacking structure, we've yet to see it, if anything we have gotten worse and more repetitive. I've never doubted Wanes love for the club, for the players and the fans. However the past 12 month we seem very limited, if it wasn't for the dire state of Super League, if the usual suspects were on top form we would be nowhere near them, we have to be thankful that SL in general is at an all time low or we would be mid-table.

Re: Another Big Game....Another Awful Performance : Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:55 pm  

ChrisA wrote:

Agreed, I've watched Wigan since the mid 80s, the style of rugby played is just as poor as it was under Noble. No shortage of effort or passion, just a lack of ideas and flair. It's tedious to watch the same move, the players must surely feel embarrassed running the same move with no variation? When you do the same thing, expect the same outcome, we are predictable and easy to defend against. Despite Wane telling us several times over the past few years that they have some new moves and attacking structure, we've yet to see it, if anything we have gotten worse and more repetitive. I've never doubted Wanes love for the club, for the players and the fans. However the past 12 month we seem very limited, if it wasn't for the dire state of Super League, if the usual suspects were on top form we would be nowhere near them, we have to be thankful that SL in general is at an all time low or we would be mid-table.

The style of play is dictated by the coach however, it is the players who do the doing.
Unlike many on here I also think the majority of our players are rank bad rugby players. They may consider themselves as athletes but rugby players? Never in a million years.
I honestly don't know how a full time pro cannot do basics and I mean basics. We have a shed full of wrestlers but very few rugby players.
I could name names but who doesn't know the players who can't pass, kick, consider options, play for 80 minutes, actually really intimidate their direct opponent, make a break........
It's easy to blame the coach (and I do) however, at the end of the day it's the players that really matter and ours just aren't good enough, vastly overrated or past their sell by date. The worst thing for us the majority of our senior players for me fall into these categories.
This isn't a rant over last night it's what I have thought for over 2 years. I think all the injuries have just temporarily deflected that actually we are not a good team.

Re: Another Big Game....Another Awful Performance : Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:00 pm  

The access to seeing how other teams play has altered not only Rugby League. Gone are the days when you only saw an opposition player when you played against them.. it's true that when players are unconventional they make a difference, but they also get huge amounts of stick when they mess up... For this in our squad, i give you Gelling, who gets slated on this board, tho less so the last 12 months.

[Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy]

Re: Another Big Game....Another Awful Performance : Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:29 pm  

Albion wrote:

From a saints POV, I don't think I've seen us play a Wigan team so devoid of ideas for a long time. It was really quite remarkable to watch.

We had a right side defence of greenwood, Fleming, Walsh and Owens and you hardly made a dent in it. That's really quite appalling.

Our attacking frailties are just as bad as yours and a lot of the time we didn't look like scoring. Our scores coming from your errors.

Btw, that's the worst I've ever seen Sam Tomkins play. Has he been like that all season? He had an abolsutd stinker.

Cunningham obviously coached the defence to defend "the move" and did it well. We could still be playing now and wouldn't score using it. The grubber kick out wide seems to be the new plan B but was executed appallingly apart from the try.

Unfortunately we have nobody with a rugby brain to try something a little different and react in a game situation. Same happened last week when Leeds kept kicking to Hall's wing and Manfredi took every ball. Anyone with half a brain would react to that and target Manfredi with attacking kicks near their line as he had the beating of Hall. Of course, Wigan didn't.

We are incredibly poor at identifying weaknesses in the opposition defence and having a proactive or reactive plan to exploit it with something other than "the move".

Re: Another Big Game....Another Awful Performance : Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:39 pm  

Just had a look into the season so far, in my opinion we have put in the following:

4 good solid performances - Saints on Good Friday, Leeds at Newcastle (ok they were dire), Catalans away and Castleford Away.

11 average performances and 8 below average performances, yes injuries have affected us during the season.

** - 5 games where we scored in the final minutes/seconds to win the game (10 points).

We have yet to perform for a whole 80 minutes and blow a team away.


Rd 1 - Catalans (H), Won, 12-6, Average Performance.
Rd 2 – Huddersfield (A), Won, 18-13, Below Average Performance. **
Rd 3 – Salford (H), Won, 20-16, Below Average Performance. **
Rd 4 – Hull FC (A), Won 26-25, Average Performance. **
Rd 5 – Leeds (H), Won 28-6, Average Performance.
Rd 6 – Widnes (H), Lost 12-18, Below Average Performance.
Rd 7 – Saints (A), Won 24-12, Good Performance.
Rd 8 – Hull KR (H), Won 30-16, Average Performance.
Rd 9 – Wire (H), Lost 16-28, Average Performance.
Rd 10 – Wakefield (A), Lost 0-62, Below Average Performance.
Rd 11 – Castleford (H), Won 26-12, Average Performance.
Rd 12 – Huddersfield (H), Won 26-19, Average Performance.
Rd 13 – Warrington (A), Lost 10-40, Below Average Performance.
Rd 14 – Hull FC (H), Lost 16-30, Below Average Performance.
Rd 15 – Leeds (N), Won 40-08, Good Performance.
Rd 16 – Castleford (A), Won 33-26, Good Performance.
Rd 17 – Salford (A), Won 23-20, Average Performance.
Rd 18 – Hull KR (A), Won 20-18, Average Performance. **
Rd 19 – Widnes (A), Won 7-0, Average Performance.
Rd 20 – Catalans (A), 26-6, Good Performance.
Rd 21 – Wakefield (H), Won 22-18. Below Average Performance. **
Rd 22 – Leeds (A), Lost 16-18. Average Performance.
Rd 23 – Saints (H), Lost 4-23. Below Average Performance.


Just my thoughts, some of you may disagree with a few of ratings above and think I'm being too harsh. Whilst it's been pretty average so far this season, to remain in the top four with such a heavy injury list (never known anything like it) is admirable with some real backs to the wall stuff like Widnes away 7-0...etc.

Can we still get to the Grand Final? Of course we can, I actually think we stand a better chance of that than the Challenge Cup (I think we will struggle next week to be honest).

Regardless of how we finish up I do believe SW deserves next season, however we are desperately in need of some sort of additional coaching. We need to try something different instead of 'The move'. I look longingly at Leeds and their new signing James Segeyaro and think if only we had him instead of Matty Smith, we'd be unstoppable.

Re: Another Big Game....Another Awful Performance : Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:55 pm  

Sport at the top level is played by keeping a clear head in tough and key moments in a game.
Our guys are brain dead so it's no surprise we win nowt.
The back room staff want to keep their jobs so they pursue fitness beyond everything else and we have zero coaching.

Re: Another Big Game....Another Awful Performance : Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:56 pm  

When we were loosing 4-10 we had the chance to take two points to make it 6-10 and ball back but no we ran it and Saints scored to make it 4-16. We had several chances to take two but we never once took them, Saints took theirs, what numb rugby we played yesterday.

Re: Another Big Game....Another Awful Performance : Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:23 pm  

Saints were the better team and deserved their win. If you make twenty errors in a game then you're going to struggle to win against any team. Defensively Wigan were good, but turning over so much ball, particularly early in the tackle count was recipe for disaster.

The worrying thing is the timing of the attack, it shouldn't be so far off at this time of the year but it's going to have to be fixed, otherwise there'll be nothing to show for a seasons work. We seemed to be going too wide too soon and desperately needed someone to straighten us up.

We'll be playing Saints at Wigan again in the "Super 8's" lets hope for a more composed performance.

One thing I don't expect to see is four players having their worst game of the season in this game.