Re: England 19-man squad for RLWC Semi Final : Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:04 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I’m looking all over the internet and everyone is bagging the selections but there was hardly a murmur before the game. Throughout the comp I’d have liked the change up option Ackers could bring from the bench but I can see why Wane didn’t go that way.

As a team we simply saved our worst for our most important game and that’s so disappointing. A few had off days and saved comfortably their worst performance for today but I always like to treat the national side as a team and not bag certain individuals. We just didn’t play well enough. If only they had the game all over again, I’m sure we’d nail it but you don’t get a second chance in a World Cup.

This is the most articulate and mature summary I've read. Its easy to let club loyalities influence comments and start bagging other players. Indeed Welsby has had a lot of stick on social media. I do get it, he is a big talent, much was expected of him and he didn't perform. I'm big enough to say that he had a poor game and hopefully he will learn from that, lick his wounds and come back well. With a Saints hat on I'm hoping he goes back to FB and has a great season.

Too many players underperformed but it was the right edge for me that cost us. Young looked young (pardon the pun) and looked a bit lost at times. The communication between him, Watkins and Welsby was poor and defensively we struggled. Tomkins looked his age, however I thought Williams played well in patches.

As for the future, a lot of those who played on Saturday won't be in the next WC. Makinson, Burgess, Hill, Cooper, Tomkins, Whitehead etc and then even the likes of Walmsley, Lomax and Farrell will be too old. Hopefully there is some talent coming through. The problem is that the game is too reliant on the likes of Saints/Wigan/Leeds bringing through all the talent. They can't keep doing that in silo and need other clubs to step up. To be fair to Warrington, they do now seem to have got their academy sorted and are producing some excellent players. However when you look at the size of Hull as a city and the catchment area of it, its a disgrace that they aren't producing international class players.

Re: England 19-man squad for RLWC Semi Final : Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:54 am  

Stu M wrote:

This is the most articulate and mature summary I've read. Its easy to let club loyalities influence comments and start bagging other players. Indeed Welsby has had a lot of stick on social media. I do get it, he is a big talent, much was expected of him and he didn't perform. I'm big enough to say that he had a poor game and hopefully he will learn from that, lick his wounds and come back well. With a Saints hat on I'm hoping he goes back to FB and has a great season.

Too many players underperformed but it was the right edge for me that cost us. Young looked young (pardon the pun) and looked a bit lost at times. The communication between him, Watkins and Welsby was poor and defensively we struggled. Tomkins looked his age, however I thought Williams played well in patches.

As for the future, a lot of those who played on Saturday won't be in the next WC. Makinson, Burgess, Hill, Cooper, Tomkins, Whitehead etc and then even the likes of Walmsley, Lomax and Farrell will be too old. Hopefully there is some talent coming through. The problem is that the game is too reliant on the likes of Saints/Wigan/Leeds bringing through all the talent. They can't keep doing that in silo and need other clubs to step up. To be fair to Warrington, they do now seem to have got their academy sorted and are producing some excellent players. However when you look at the size of Hull as a city and the catchment area of it, its a disgrace that they aren't producing international class players.

Agree that no point in blaming any players because they dont play for your team,on Saturday I was a England fan not a Wigan fan as I have stated on many occasions.
We need other teams to step up and supply more international players.
Keep Wane as head coach,get some more internationals played each year,get rid of the salary Cap or raise it enough so we can improve the product.

Re: England 19-man squad for RLWC Semi Final : Mon Nov 14, 2022 11:44 am  

We need to fundamentally change the organisation of the sport over here, something that we have, allegedly, been doing for over four decades. Tinkering at the edges will not make us competitive with the Aussies. We are a second rate sport compared with the NRL and we need somebody with vision to take the game by the scruff of the neck, unfortunately Chairman Mo is no longer with us. Sadly we have gone backwards since the days of Hanley and co.

People have put the likes of Welsby on a pedestal but, although I think the lad is a very good player, he would not get a gig in the NRL. Hopefully, as Stu says, he gets a run at fullback and then we can seriously assess his qualities. We are woefully short of real talent, a fact supported by average antipodeans playing in SL, and that needs to change if people born after 1972 are to witness another successful England side.

Re: England 19-man squad for RLWC Semi Final : Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:20 pm  

Zig wrote:

We need to fundamentally change the organisation of the sport over here, something that we have, allegedly, been doing for over four decades. Tinkering at the edges will not make us competitive with the Aussies. We are a second rate sport compared with the NRL and we need somebody with vision to take the game by the scruff of the neck, unfortunately Chairman Mo is no longer with us. Sadly we have gone backwards since the days of Hanley and co.

People have put the likes of Welsby on a pedestal but, although I think the lad is a very good player, he would not get a gig in the NRL. Hopefully, as Stu says, he gets a run at fullback and then we can seriously assess his qualities. We are woefully short of real talent, a fact supported by average antipodeans playing in SL, and that needs to change if people born after 1972 are to witness another successful England side.

Not much has been mentioned about quota spots.

I remember when you had 3 and a bit of a loophole meant you could scam 5. Now we have 7 with loopholes meaning we can go up to 8.

This is a huge fundamental issue with the game.

In many cases clubs can field a match day 13 with over half the players not qualifying to play for England or the other home nations.

We need to reduce this as a matter of priority initially to 5, then ultimately to 3.

Re: England 19-man squad for RLWC Semi Final : Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:53 pm  

jonh wrote:

Not much has been mentioned about quota spots.

I remember when you had 3 and a bit of a loophole meant you could scam 5. Now we have 7 with loopholes meaning we can go up to 8.

This is a huge fundamental issue with the game.

In many cases clubs can field a match day 13 with over half the players not qualifying to play for England or the other home nations.

We need to reduce this as a matter of priority initially to 5, then ultimately to 3.

I think that is a sensible suggestion.

Re: England 19-man squad for RLWC Semi Final : Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:01 pm  

Zig wrote:

I think that is a sensible suggestion.

I agree in principal, but you also have to look to maintain the club level game and make it attractive to spectators, unfortunately imports do that for clubs, reducing the quota too low may mean a lack of interest at club level and a drop off in spectators.

I would like to see more of an emphasis on bringing players into the international set up with a chance for them to play more international games, hopefully this will raise the standards of players coming through and we can try and identify the younger talent coming through

Re: England 19-man squad for RLWC Semi Final : Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:01 pm  

Zig wrote:

I think that is a sensible suggestion.

I agree in principal, but you also have to look to maintain the club level game and make it attractive to spectators, unfortunately imports do that for clubs, reducing the quota too low may mean a lack of interest at club level and a drop off in spectators.

I would like to see more of an emphasis on bringing players into the international set up with a chance for them to play more international games, hopefully this will raise the standards of players coming through and we can try and identify the younger talent coming through

Re: England 19-man squad for RLWC Semi Final : Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:12 pm  

Still gutted

Re: England 19-man squad for RLWC Semi Final : Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:15 pm  

Warrior Winger wrote:

I agree in principal, but you also have to look to maintain the club level game and make it attractive to spectators, unfortunately imports do that for clubs, reducing the quota too low may mean a lack of interest at club level and a drop off in spectators.

I would like to see more of an emphasis on bringing players into the international set up with a chance for them to play more international games, hopefully this will raise the standards of players coming through and we can try and identify the younger talent coming through

The club level game is already low. I have no problem with clubs bringing in quality imports but the majority are average players. The only way we can raise the standards of players coming through the system is to send them to the NRL.

Re: England 19-man squad for RLWC Semi Final : Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:38 pm  

Zig wrote:

The club level game is already low. I have no problem with clubs bringing in quality imports but the majority are average players. The only way we can raise the standards of players coming through the system is to send them to the NRL.

Every time that happens we get complaints about watering down the level of SL. We can't have it both ways.

We either send the best players to the NRL to try and improve the national side, or we keep them all in SL to improve the level of SL but it may not improve the national side.