Re: Cooper : Wed Apr 12, 2023 7:30 pm  

I know Gus Gould divides opinion and his arrogance can be irritating but I'd encourage everyone to listen to the latest 6 tackles with Gus podcast where tackling technique is discussed - its very interesting.

Re: Cooper : Wed Apr 12, 2023 7:47 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

When has Knowles been charged for a hip drop tackle before? He may have been but the McGilivray one he certainly wasn't. Watching that video there are three in the tackle and Lussick seems to force Knowles over.

Just find it strange that a tackle that is under such scrutiny for being dangerous can attract a four match difference. Or is it just the injury? If so that seems odd as surely we should punish tackles that risk injury not wait until an injury then punish them more severely.

I'm not saying he didn't deserve a ban, just wonder what the 3/4 match difference between other recent hip drop tackles is all about - it's quite a gap!

Presumed the McGillvary one was cautioned and it’s absolutely staggering if it wasn’t. I also thought I read yesterday he’d had a warning for it this season but I’ve not got Knowles charge sheet to hand (can’t afford the paper) . I’m not defending Smithies, he is possibly lucky to get one match and next time it should be many more because he’s had a warning now (same for Batchelor).

Knowles ruling a fellow England player out for 6 months should’ve been warning enough for him. The farcical successful appeal for seemingly trying to twist a players arm out of place should’ve been another or he then could’ve took heed of the 8 times he’d been looked at by the disciplinary this season but it just continues happening and it looks like things have caught up with him a bit (although granted he doesn’t miss the combined 18 months he put McGillvary and Cooper out for).

Re: Cooper : Wed Apr 12, 2023 7:58 pm  

hengirl wrote:

When he was helped off you couldn't help but feel it was a bad one the plus side he looks a fit as a butchers whippet so I've no doubt he can get through this but as other have pointed out it's not just the initial time to recover its refinding his form and given hjs age it may be time for to call it a day.

Shame really he was turning in to shrewd signing by the club

It's really bad news for him, always felt he was an outstanding forward. Just not eye-catching or blockbuster like walmsley etc

If a forward can come back from this at his age I think he is probably one of the few in super League with the mentality and discipline to do so....when Currie king Paul wood and a lot of other players have come back from a bad injury they have played with a fear for a period until they trusted it again...I don't think it will take cooper a year to play without that fear.

Re: Cooper : Wed Apr 12, 2023 9:22 pm  

FearTheVee wrote: I'm not saying he didn't deserve a ban, just wonder what the 3/4 match difference between other recent hip drop tackles is all about - it's quite a gap! The Smithies tackle is reckless but he drops from the players hip and is the only man in the tackle. Knowles drops from full height in a 3 man tackle, even before the injury its a more dangerous challenge. Also From - https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/how-mike ... nal-72829/ The RFL’s mitigating and aggravating factors read “Injury can be used by the MRP (and consequently by the ORT) when considering appropriate grading in order to assess the degree of force and as an indication of the point of contact by a player when effecting a tackle. Foe example, if a player sustain a serious injury which results in a period of time away from the game as a result of misconduct, this may mean the grading is increased.” Add to that Knowles previous record, it's not that surprising he's got himself a longer sit down.

FearTheVee wrote: I'm not saying he didn't deserve a ban, just wonder what the 3/4 match difference between other recent hip drop tackles is all about - it's quite a gap! The Smithies tackle is reckless but he drops from the players hip and is the only man in the tackle. Knowles drops from full height in a 3 man tackle, even before the injury its a more dangerous challenge. Also From - https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/how-mike ... nal-72829/ The RFL’s mitigating and aggravating factors read “Injury can be used by the MRP (and consequently by the ORT) when considering appropriate grading in order to assess the degree of force and as an indication of the point of contact by a player when effecting a tackle. Foe example, if a player sustain a serious injury which results in a period of time away from the game as a result of misconduct, this may mean the grading is increased.” Add to that Knowles previous record, it's not that surprising he's got himself a longer sit down.

Re: Cooper : Thu Apr 13, 2023 6:22 am  

spartakmixtapes wrote: The Smithies tackle is reckless but he drops from the players hip and is the only man in the tackle. Knowles drops from full height in a 3 man tackle, even before the injury its a more dangerous challenge. Also From - https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/how-mike ... nal-72829/ The RFL’s mitigating and aggravating factors read “Injury can be used by the MRP (and consequently by the ORT) when considering appropriate grading in order to assess the degree of force and as an indication of the point of contact by a player when effecting a tackle. Foe example, if a player sustain a serious injury which results in a period of time away from the game as a result of misconduct, this may mean the grading is increased.” Add to that Knowles previous record, it's not that surprising he's got himself a longer sit down. Thanks for that - didn’t realise injury was taken into account. Seems a bit odd to me as it can be complete random luck whether dangerous play results in an injury but fair enough - rules are rules.

spartakmixtapes wrote: The Smithies tackle is reckless but he drops from the players hip and is the only man in the tackle. Knowles drops from full height in a 3 man tackle, even before the injury its a more dangerous challenge. Also From - https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/how-mike ... nal-72829/ The RFL’s mitigating and aggravating factors read “Injury can be used by the MRP (and consequently by the ORT) when considering appropriate grading in order to assess the degree of force and as an indication of the point of contact by a player when effecting a tackle. Foe example, if a player sustain a serious injury which results in a period of time away from the game as a result of misconduct, this may mean the grading is increased.” Add to that Knowles previous record, it's not that surprising he's got himself a longer sit down. Thanks for that - didn’t realise injury was taken into account. Seems a bit odd to me as it can be complete random luck whether dangerous play results in an injury but fair enough - rules are rules.

Re: Cooper : Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:18 am  

FearTheVee wrote:

Thanks for that - didn’t realise injury was taken into account. Seems a bit odd to me as it can be complete random luck whether dangerous play results in an injury but fair enough - rules are rules.

Agree where injury is taken into account as that can happen at any point. Any form of strain / tear / ACL / MCL could occur whilst a player is running and no-one anywhere near them

if we take head high tackles too in a similar way to how boxers can be described. Player X can take a hit, so is hit high and thus no reaction, and probably laughs if off, however Player Y has a glass jaw, and suffers concussion from a lesser challenge, but that player could now be banned for more games than the other player

i get there is always going to be an element of subjectivity with regards to intent etc, and i dont think it has been too often that any of us have actually seen a player go out with the intention of deliberately injuring a fellow player (perhaps Les Boyd in origin ), and thus taking the injury into account or not is going to leave the disciplinary open to criticism over virtually every decision

Re: Cooper : Thu Apr 13, 2023 1:38 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

Thanks for that - didn’t realise injury was taken into account. Seems a bit odd to me as it can be complete random luck whether dangerous play results in an injury but fair enough - rules are rules.

It doesn’t mean that they are good rules or even if the rules are interpreted correctly by the match review panel. For me, the grading system should be dispensed with if you have a repeat offender with a second, third etc., offence attracting a greater penalty than the previous.

Re: Cooper : Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:59 am  

FearTheVee wrote:

Thanks for that - didn’t realise injury was taken into account. Seems a bit odd to me as it can be complete random luck whether dangerous play results in an injury but fair enough - rules are rules.

it shouldnt be brought into it fore that exact reason

Re: Cooper : Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:51 am  

Can Wigan de-register Cooper for 2023 and free up cap space? What is the latest guidance?

Re: Cooper : Fri Apr 14, 2023 12:04 pm  

easyWire wrote:

Can Wigan de-register Cooper for 2023 and free up cap space? What is the latest guidance?

Not sure but the biggest issue it feels like we face, is us not having any quota spots available and we need to move somebody on, to get one in, which then still leagues us a player down. It’s difficult to see how a decent English forward becomes available (but then I suppose I’d have thought that last year and then we got Cooper himself).