Re: Hock : Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:27 pm  

DaveO wrote:

I think trying to escape your demons by moving from the relative obscurity of British RL to the gold fish bowl of the NRL in Oz is like jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I also think the kind of care given to him by Wigan may well not be so easy to find elsewhere so IMO he is likely to be in more danger if he leaves the fold where he is very well understood.

I would imagine the demons are the 'friends' he has grown up with & the associated lifestyle, who he seems to be having trouble ditching. If he has enough about him, & that is not definite, he can choose his new friends far easier 12,000 miles away. Your last sentence is a distinct possibility, however.

Re: Hock : Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:38 pm  

DaveO wrote:

I find all the rumours about him falling back into his previous bad ways that got him banned very hard to believe. If he had done so the club could not deal with it by offering him up for transfer in the knowledge he had made that very same mistake twice. Hock will also be one of the most tested players in the competition due to his past record and of course he is playing for England again which exposes him to further testing. So if he had been naughty again he'd be banned already and there is no way the club would or could protect him from this and then ship him out.

If the club has instigated a move as suggested in another post I reckon it must be for other reasons.

If Hock has instigated it due to the idea he needs to leave his past behind then as I alluded to in my previous post he is kidding himself if he thinks that will fix it and it would be a pretty poor way to return the investment and faith shown in him by Wigan and a lot of the fans who wanted him to be given a second chance here.

There is a third more mundane option - he just wants to go for more money!

And of course it could all just be pure rumour with nothing in it. I guess we will find out soon if Phil Wilkinson can get it out of him.

He isn't available to be interviewed today.

It is looking increasingly he is going and we have got a huge transfer fee which is pointless with the cap as low as it is because a player that would command that type of fee to replace him would want more wages than we could afford

[DaveO]

Re: Hock : Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:02 pm  

tigertot wrote:

I would imagine the demons are the 'friends' he has grown up with & the associated lifestyle, who he seems to be having trouble ditching. If he has enough about him, & that is not definite, he can choose his new friends far easier 12,000 miles away. Your last sentence is a distinct possibility, however.

I don't believe moving 12000 miles will solve anything and I find it very strange having been through what he has he has such difficulty in ditching so called friends. If he has identified them as the problem it must be obvious to him not to associate with them any more. If they persist in trying to contact him I am sure the club would assist him in sorting that out. RL down under puts players under the kind of microscope he has never experienced here even when he was originally caught out for drug use. I think he'd be quite mad to move the NRL hoping for any kind of less stressful life off the field.

Re: Hock : Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:03 pm  

Feck it, I'll say it; this sucks and I am completely disillusioned with our game.

We've had Jeff Lima move to South Sydney, Brett Finch and Thomas Leuluai opt to move to the NRL, we've got rumours of Gareth Hock leaving to the NRL, Harrison Hansen set to be poached by New Zealand Warriors, strong rumours of Lee Mossop going on a 'sabbatical' leave to the NRL. Coupled with the fact Union snapped up Joel Tomkins - a tremendous talent lost to the game - and inevitably we resign ourselves to losing our star player, our competition's flagship player Sam Tomkins to Union when we allow ourselves to bend over and let him speak to whoever the hell he wants next year. This flat out sucks.

Okay, critics will say Wigan have poached Blake Green and Scott Taylor from Hull KR, but just say that to yourself, Blake Green and Scott Taylor. Wigan's star signing next season is Blake Green. Without getting all the scapegoat, give him a chance, stop writing him off before he's kicked a ball spiel, I never imagined for a second we would see a halfback combination of Matty Smith and Blake Green at Wigan. All our best players appear to be leaving/left/retired without any like-for-like quality coming in. Sam Tomkins, George Carmont, Jeff Lima, Brett Finch, Thomas Leuluai, Gareth Hock, Harrison Hansen, Lee Mossop etc and who are we bringing in? Epalahame Lauaki, Anthony Gelling, Ben Flower, Gil Dudson, Scott Taylor, Matty Smith, Blake Green - it makes for horrible reading. Finally the RFL will have the even competition they've been looking for when we're on the same level as Wakefield, Salford, London and all them other rubbish little clubs.

What is the point in heavy investment in our youth setup, developing and nuturing these young RL players not just as a player but as men too, seeing them progress through our academy system, integrate them into the first team, establish themselves in the first team to eventually move up to England RL players to then see them as established players poached by Union or the NRL. And the only BS you hear in return is "well we got a substantial transfer fee" or "we'll develop another one" or "IMO -insert any young academy player- is going to be a better player anyway" - all ridiculous points to make. The transfer fee money is no use because we can't afford the salaries of a like-for-like replacement due to salary cap restraints i.e Blake Green (Brett Finch), Matty Smith (Thomas Leuluai), that young lad who people think will excel and replace the departed player will only end up being snapped again by the NRL/Union or might well just not be as good. I mean, will Wigan ever develop a player like Sam Tomkins in the next twenty years? Say the next ten years?

Yes this is a dummy spit and probably makes for a tremendous laugh for some of the trolls on here but that is sad in itself. The glee other supporters will get when the best players from our competition (Finch/Leuluai/Carmont/Lima - possibly Mossop/Hock/Hansen/Tomkins) are poached to another sport/competition and Super League, the product they are paying for, is worse off for it, but who cares as long as we can finally compete with Wigan.

Re: Hock : Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:15 pm  

All i can say is if Hock goes there is no one in the pack to frighten anyone, they dont even scare me!!he is our only enforcer.

Re: Hock : Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:27 pm  

http://www.1eyedeel.com/m/discussion?id ... %3A1139257 Not sure how reliable it is but it has a quote from the chairman confirming they are in talks.

http://www.1eyedeel.com/m/discussion?id ... %3A1139257 Not sure how reliable it is but it has a quote from the chairman confirming they are in talks.

Re: Hock : Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:36 pm  

cadoo wrote:

Feck it, I'll say it; this sucks and I am completely disillusioned with our game.

We've had Jeff Lima move to South Sydney, Brett Finch and Thomas Leuluai opt to move to the NRL, we've got rumours of Gareth Hock leaving to the NRL, Harrison Hansen set to be poached by New Zealand Warriors, strong rumours of Lee Mossop going on a 'sabbatical' leave to the NRL. Coupled with the fact Union snapped up Joel Tomkins - a tremendous talent lost to the game - and inevitably we resign ourselves to losing our star player, our competition's flagship player Sam Tomkins to Union when we allow ourselves to bend over and let him speak to whoever the hell he wants next year. This flat out sucks.

Okay, critics will say Wigan have poached Blake Green and Scott Taylor from Hull KR, but just say that to yourself, Blake Green and Scott Taylor. Wigan's star signing next season is Blake Green. Without getting all the scapegoat, give him a chance, stop writing him off before he's kicked a ball spiel, I never imagined for a second we would see a halfback combination of Matty Smith and Blake Green at Wigan. All our best players appear to be leaving/left/retired without any like-for-like quality coming in. Sam Tomkins, George Carmont, Jeff Lima, Brett Finch, Thomas Leuluai, Gareth Hock, Harrison Hansen, Lee Mossop etc and who are we bringing in? Epalahame Lauaki, Anthony Gelling, Ben Flower, Gil Dudson, Scott Taylor, Matty Smith, Blake Green - it makes for horrible reading. Finally the RFL will have the even competition they've been looking for when we're on the same level as Wakefield, Salford, London and all them other rubbish little clubs.

What is the point in heavy investment in our youth setup, developing and nuturing these young RL players not just as a player but as men too, seeing them progress through our academy system, integrate them into the first team, establish themselves in the first team to eventually move up to England RL players to then see them as established players poached by Union or the NRL. And the only BS you hear in return is "well we got a substantial transfer fee" or "we'll develop another one" or "IMO -insert any young academy player- is going to be a better player anyway" - all ridiculous points to make. The transfer fee money is no use because we can't afford the salaries of a like-for-like replacement due to salary cap restraints i.e Blake Green (Brett Finch), Matty Smith (Thomas Leuluai), that young lad who people think will excel and replace the departed player will only end up being snapped again by the NRL/Union or might well just not be as good. I mean, will Wigan ever develop a player like Sam Tomkins in the next twenty years? Say the next ten years?

Yes this is a dummy spit and probably makes for a tremendous laugh for some of the trolls on here but that is sad in itself. The glee other supporters will get when the best players from our competition (Finch/Leuluai/Carmont/Lima - possibly Mossop/Hock/Hansen/Tomkins) are poached to another sport/competition and Super League, the product they are paying for, is worse off for it, but who cares as long as we can finally compete with Wigan.

Brilliant bit of work,it is a pity it cant be seen by the powers that be and to be seen as a cry for help that the British Game needs answers for.

Re: Hock : Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:39 pm  

not read the whole thread but i hope someone has mentioned that its a serious slight by hock against the club seeing the loyalty they showed by sticking by him with the drugs business.

seem to remember at the time people were arguing on here saying 'we should keep him cos if we don't he'll just go to oz and we'll lose out' - well, if this rumour is true, we've kept him and he's going to oz and (as another poster has laready said due to the salaray cap) we will lose out

Re: Hock : Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:58 pm  

Excellent post Cadoo!
As has been said, Hock is our only truly aggressive forward.
We will still have a very big pack but we will need an enforcer type player.
Are there any around though?

Re: Hock : Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:02 pm  

Johnny Drama wrote:

http://www.1eyedeel.com/m/discussion?id=500401%3ATopic%3A1139257

Not sure how reliable it is but it has a quote from the chairman confirming they are in talks.

Doesn't seem very official really