FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Cooper
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Captain4682
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 17 20159 years15th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
1st Dec 24 21:3421st Nov 24 11:36LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Sitting on the naughty step
Signature
Just my opinions unless it's a FACT, in which case it's a fact.

Re: Cooper : Fri Apr 14, 2023 12:28 pm  
The point about the extent of injury being taken into account is this
1) If you recklessly tackle someone in a dangerous manner then you are punished for taking the “risk” but luckily no injury caused so take this short ban as a warning about your technique/attitude
2) If you tackle as above and a significant injury is caused then that warrants further punishment.
Reckless means you are aware of the risk but take it anyway, it may be considered lucky that no serious injury was caused in scenario 1.
Logically you should probably receive the same severe punishment in 1) as in 2) but I imagine the outcry would be off the scale.
This is my interpretation, not the RFL’s.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member29779
JoinedServiceReputation
Nov 08 200420 years17th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
29th Nov 24 13:1528th Nov 24 08:57LINK
Milestone Posts
25000
30000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
WIGAN

Re: Cooper : Fri Apr 14, 2023 12:41 pm  
There’s only so long a repeat offender can drop ‘lucky’ that he doesn’t injure somebody as well. He’s caused 18 months worth of injuries, in the last 6 months, with the same tackle and I believe had a caution in between for the same offence. He’s been looked at 44 times in 5 years by the RFL (great stat from the new Wigan way podcast, that the unbelievably dirty, thuggish, Micky Mac has been looked at 43 times in 15 years). His punishments need to get heavier going forward if he doesn’t change his ways. He is putting players careers at risk.
RankPostsTeam
Fringe Player169No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Nov 07 20213 years321st
OnlineLast PostLast Page
26th Nov 24 10:0118th Oct 24 20:59LINK
Milestone Posts
100
200
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Cooper : Sun Apr 16, 2023 4:41 pm  
Good discussion, I have felt that bringing the result of the foul play into the ban was risky but, on reflection, it has to be the way. Would there be a legal issue here that the RFL would be liable if this was not the case?

On the specifics of the two incidents, Smithies hits Welsby across the back of the legs so is arguably less serious but deserving of a ban. Knowles fully swings across Cooper's legs (and for that matter, across his own players) so more serious?

Its interesting that the hip drop is now clamped down on and the tip tackle has fallen out of attention, time was any lifting of the hips above the shoulder was a pen or even a yellow. Are the RFL running the risk of having to police it again if a serious injury occurs?
RankPostsTeam
Moderator39717
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 01 200223 years13th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
29th Nov 24 13:0621st Nov 24 13:47LINK
Milestone Posts
30000
40000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Moderator

Re: Cooper : Mon Apr 17, 2023 9:19 am  
Don't know if anyone is interested or if you've moved on, but the minutes from the tribunal are up on the rfl website now, interesting reading.
Phuzzy 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach5505
JoinedServiceReputation
Nov 19 200618 years122nd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
1st Dec 24 23:4428th Nov 24 00:46LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Cooper : Mon Apr 17, 2023 10:36 am  
Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:
Don't know if anyone is interested or if you've moved on, but the minutes from the tribunal are up on the rfl website now, interesting reading.

Seems that the tribunal believe he knew exactly what he was doing. I'm guessing this comes from his previous. Not good if true.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star4470
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 20 201312 years112th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
11th Oct 24 20:089th Oct 24 17:15LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Watching Rugby League

Re: Cooper : Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:41 pm  
Phuzzy wrote:
Seems that the tribunal believe he knew exactly what he was doing. I'm guessing this comes from his previous. Not good if true.


If that's the case, then 5 games isn't enough.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star133
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 29 201212 years308th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
30th Nov 24 15:5027th Nov 24 08:32LINK
Milestone Posts
100
200
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Cooper : Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:23 pm  
Phuzzy wrote:
Seems that the tribunal believe he knew exactly what he was doing. I'm guessing this comes from his previous. Not good if true.

Its difficult to say "he knew exactly what he was doing" because its a lazy/desperate tackle technique in that the defender is usually in a beaten position in the tackle and chooses to use his bodyweight rather than strength to bring the player down. If he was doing those tackles in the first quarter of the game you'd have a point but they tend to happen later in games when discipline gets a bit ragged and players start to take short cuts.
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach531
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 10 200519 years296th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
6th Oct 23 17:063rd Aug 23 06:41LINK
Milestone Posts
500
1000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Wigan

Re: Cooper : Mon Apr 17, 2023 3:30 pm  
It is quite lengthy

https://www.rugby-league.com/governance ... case=16998

Player plea:

Guilty
Summary of CM's submissions on the Charge / evidence:

Following a Match Review Panel meeting held on 10th April 2023, you are charged with misconduct for a breach of Law 15.1(i) during the above match.

The Panel reviewed an incident which occurred at 1 45 53 Opta footage time of the above match. In the Panel’s opinion you have used your body to apply pressure to the leg of an opponent. The Panel believed that your actions were unnecessary, had the potential to cause injury and are against the true spirit of the game.

In accordance with the RFL’s On Field Sentencing Guidelines, the Panel consider that such offence is a Grade D offence – Dangerous Contact - Defender uses any part of their body forcefully to twist, bend or otherwise apply pressure to the limb or limbs of an opposing player in a way that involves an unacceptable risk of injury to that player.

The normal suspension range for such offence is 2 to 3 matches.

• Match Review Panel reviewed an incident which occurred in the above match.

• The opponent Mr Cooper can be seen to take a carry close to the try line and is contacted by several St Helens players including Mr Knowles.

• The opponent breaks through the initial contact with Mr Knowles who has a hold of his upper body.

• Mr Knowles initially whilst maintaining an upper body grip, keeps his feet on the ground and moves with the opponent.

• The player then takes both his feet off the ground and his body contacts the opponent Mr Cooper leg.

• The opponent is in a vulnerable position.

• Mr Knowles actions are of a reckless nature.

• Opponent leaves the field and cannot bear weight on his leg.

• Grade D due to:
- Highly reckless act of taking both feet off the ground.
- Significant weight of player going through opponent’s leg.
- Opponent is in a vulnerable position and can in no way mitigate for the actions of Mr Knowles.
- Player is solely responsible for his actions.
- A serious injury has occurred in this instance.
Summary of Player's submissions on the Charge / evidence:

Player in attendance alongside Mike Rush (CEO) & Paul Wellens (Head Coach). Player pleads Guilty.

MR explained that the club were unsure if they were appealing the grading as this was the first time they had been involved in a hearing where medical evidence had been supplied, however, in his opinion the tackle was careless and not reckless.


MR believed that the footage showed that when MK puts his hands on the opponents shoulder his body twists, and this along with the contribution of two teammates was instrumental in adding momentum which caused the accident. Rugby League is a contact sport and accidents do happen, but in this instance the actions of MK were careless not reckless.

MK informed the Tribunal that there was never any intention to cause injury to the opponent. They are friends and he was gutted that his actions had resulted in an injury which could take 9-12 months before the opponent can be back in action.
Decision:

Challenging Grading
Reasons for Decision:

The Panel believed that this act was reckless and graded correctly at Grade D. The Panel do not believe that momentum was the reason Mr Knowles feet came off the ground, simply that he took his own feet off the ground causing a significant proportion of his body weight to then go through the leg of his opponent.
Decision On Sanction (where found to have committed Misconduct)
Summary of CM's submissions on the appropriate sanction:

The Match Review Panel have removed the Penalty Notice in this instance due to the opponent sustaining a serious long-term injury where he will be out of the sport for a minimum of 9 months. The Match Review Panel believe while this offence itself is correctly graded as a Grade D; the injury surmounts to the sanction being increased outside of the usual 3 matches Mr Knowles would have received if a Penalty Notice had been issued in this case.
Summary of Player's submissions on the appropriate sanction:

The player says there was no intent to injure the opponent and is remorseful for his actions. The player states he has apologised to his opponent.
Aggravating Factors:

20/03/23 – Dangerous Contact – 1 match
26/09/22 – Dangerous Contact – 1 match
26/08/22 – High Tackle – 1 match
15/08/22 – Shoulder Charge – 1 match
18/07/22 – Dangerous Contact – 1 match
13/06/22 – Dangerous Contact – 0 matches
04/10/21 – High Tackle – 0 matches
Reasons for Decision:

The Tribunal are entirely satisfied that this was a reckless act. The matter has been referred to them as the Match Review Panel have withdrawn the Penalty Notice due to the injury sustained. The Tribunal agree that this has been graded correctly and these are exceptional circumstances. The Tribunal therefore determine that a 5-match suspension and a fine of £500 fine is appropriate instance.
Suspension:

5 matches
It is quite lengthy

https://www.rugby-league.com/governance ... case=16998

Player plea:

Guilty
Summary of CM's submissions on the Charge / evidence:

Following a Match Review Panel meeting held on 10th April 2023, you are charged with misconduct for a breach of Law 15.1(i) during the above match.

The Panel reviewed an incident which occurred at 1 45 53 Opta footage time of the above match. In the Panel’s opinion you have used your body to apply pressure to the leg of an opponent. The Panel believed that your actions were unnecessary, had the potential to cause injury and are against the true spirit of the game.

In accordance with the RFL’s On Field Sentencing Guidelines, the Panel consider that such offence is a Grade D offence – Dangerous Contact - Defender uses any part of their body forcefully to twist, bend or otherwise apply pressure to the limb or limbs of an opposing player in a way that involves an unacceptable risk of injury to that player.

The normal suspension range for such offence is 2 to 3 matches.

• Match Review Panel reviewed an incident which occurred in the above match.

• The opponent Mr Cooper can be seen to take a carry close to the try line and is contacted by several St Helens players including Mr Knowles.

• The opponent breaks through the initial contact with Mr Knowles who has a hold of his upper body.

• Mr Knowles initially whilst maintaining an upper body grip, keeps his feet on the ground and moves with the opponent.

• The player then takes both his feet off the ground and his body contacts the opponent Mr Cooper leg.

• The opponent is in a vulnerable position.

• Mr Knowles actions are of a reckless nature.

• Opponent leaves the field and cannot bear weight on his leg.

• Grade D due to:
- Highly reckless act of taking both feet off the ground.
- Significant weight of player going through opponent’s leg.
- Opponent is in a vulnerable position and can in no way mitigate for the actions of Mr Knowles.
- Player is solely responsible for his actions.
- A serious injury has occurred in this instance.
Summary of Player's submissions on the Charge / evidence:

Player in attendance alongside Mike Rush (CEO) & Paul Wellens (Head Coach). Player pleads Guilty.

MR explained that the club were unsure if they were appealing the grading as this was the first time they had been involved in a hearing where medical evidence had been supplied, however, in his opinion the tackle was careless and not reckless.


MR believed that the footage showed that when MK puts his hands on the opponents shoulder his body twists, and this along with the contribution of two teammates was instrumental in adding momentum which caused the accident. Rugby League is a contact sport and accidents do happen, but in this instance the actions of MK were careless not reckless.

MK informed the Tribunal that there was never any intention to cause injury to the opponent. They are friends and he was gutted that his actions had resulted in an injury which could take 9-12 months before the opponent can be back in action.
Decision:

Challenging Grading
Reasons for Decision:

The Panel believed that this act was reckless and graded correctly at Grade D. The Panel do not believe that momentum was the reason Mr Knowles feet came off the ground, simply that he took his own feet off the ground causing a significant proportion of his body weight to then go through the leg of his opponent.
Decision On Sanction (where found to have committed Misconduct)
Summary of CM's submissions on the appropriate sanction:

The Match Review Panel have removed the Penalty Notice in this instance due to the opponent sustaining a serious long-term injury where he will be out of the sport for a minimum of 9 months. The Match Review Panel believe while this offence itself is correctly graded as a Grade D; the injury surmounts to the sanction being increased outside of the usual 3 matches Mr Knowles would have received if a Penalty Notice had been issued in this case.
Summary of Player's submissions on the appropriate sanction:

The player says there was no intent to injure the opponent and is remorseful for his actions. The player states he has apologised to his opponent.
Aggravating Factors:

20/03/23 – Dangerous Contact – 1 match
26/09/22 – Dangerous Contact – 1 match
26/08/22 – High Tackle – 1 match
15/08/22 – Shoulder Charge – 1 match
18/07/22 – Dangerous Contact – 1 match
13/06/22 – Dangerous Contact – 0 matches
04/10/21 – High Tackle – 0 matches
Reasons for Decision:

The Tribunal are entirely satisfied that this was a reckless act. The matter has been referred to them as the Match Review Panel have withdrawn the Penalty Notice due to the injury sustained. The Tribunal agree that this has been graded correctly and these are exceptional circumstances. The Tribunal therefore determine that a 5-match suspension and a fine of £500 fine is appropriate instance.
Suspension:

5 matches
Phuzzy 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach5505
JoinedServiceReputation
Nov 19 200618 years122nd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
1st Dec 24 23:4428th Nov 24 00:46LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Cooper : Mon Apr 17, 2023 10:48 pm  
spartakmixtapes wrote:
Its difficult to say "he knew exactly what he was doing" because its a lazy/desperate tackle technique in that the defender is usually in a beaten position in the tackle and chooses to use his bodyweight rather than strength to bring the player down. If he was doing those tackles in the first quarter of the game you'd have a point but they tend to happen later in games when discipline gets a bit ragged and players start to take short cuts.

I think the tribunal's point is, lazy technique or not, he knew what he was doing when he lifted his legs and that he was playing roulette with another player's welfare. They didn't accept that it was momentum that caused him to lift his legs but rather it was a deliberate act. They're not implying that he deliberately tried to injure Cooper. Just that he knew the risks when he took that action but did it anyway. That's why they called it "reckless" rather than "careless".
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star133
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 29 201212 years308th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
30th Nov 24 15:5027th Nov 24 08:32LINK
Milestone Posts
100
200
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Cooper : Tue Apr 18, 2023 8:03 am  
Phuzzy wrote:
I think the tribunal's point is, lazy technique or not, he knew what he was doing when he lifted his legs and that he was playing roulette with another player's welfare. They didn't accept that it was momentum that caused him to lift his legs but rather it was a deliberate act. They're not implying that he deliberately tried to injure Cooper. Just that he knew the risks when he took that action but did it anyway. That's why they called it "reckless" rather than "careless".

I agree, just think we need to be careful not to infer premeditation.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 239 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to Wigan Warriors


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
28m
Transfer Talk V5
Clearwing
553
30m
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
RfE
13
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
4s
Leeds away first up
PopTart
54
7s
Recruitment rumours and links
Smiffy27
3555
8s
Ground Improvements
Spookisback
243
14s
Film game
karetaker
5916
1m
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Irregs#16
8
2m
2025 COACH Brad Arthur
Vic Mackie
257
2m
2025 Recruitment
NorthlandBul
229
3m
Mike Cooper podcast
matt_wire
21
4m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63302
4m
Super League
Dr Dreadnoug
26
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Irregs#16
8
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Jake the Peg
27
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
matt_wire
21
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Trojan Horse
50
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield - St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
28m
Transfer Talk V5
Clearwing
553
30m
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
RfE
13
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
4s
Leeds away first up
PopTart
54
7s
Recruitment rumours and links
Smiffy27
3555
8s
Ground Improvements
Spookisback
243
14s
Film game
karetaker
5916
1m
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Irregs#16
8
2m
2025 COACH Brad Arthur
Vic Mackie
257
2m
2025 Recruitment
NorthlandBul
229
3m
Mike Cooper podcast
matt_wire
21
4m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63302
4m
Super League
Dr Dreadnoug
26
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Irregs#16
8
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Jake the Peg
27
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
matt_wire
21
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Trojan Horse
50
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!