Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue May 03, 2016 9:06 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Hurrell is a strange one in that I'd love to see a player like that at Wigan, BUT I think if we are splashing out to bring an NRL player over then there's more pressing needs imo.

I'd love to see either a really good #1 or prop come in. Hurrell would improve us but a good player in either of those positions would have a bigger impact.

Also it opens up the thought of Sam and Williams at HB which is the kind of attacking pairing I'd love 5o see.

Agreed with regards to a FB! I'd love to see us bring one in and go with Sam and Williams in the halves, that would really sort out our bland attack. Our main priority should be a winger though, Charnley is off at the end of the season and we don't have a ready-made replacement. Hopefully an NRL player, they seem to have an abundance of quality backs. Other than that a utility back would be nice so we don't end up pulling Bateman out of the pack of sticking Tierney out on the wing when injuries hit. No need to go to the NRL for that one though, a Sarginsonesque signing with a fair bit of SL experience and a point to prove would do nicely.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue May 03, 2016 10:55 am  

Cruncher wrote:

I'm inclined to agree.

Aussie arrogance will always irritate us because we still have some measure of pride, and so we should. But self-kiddology that we are comparable to the NRL won't help. If anything, it plays into the hands of Wood and co, who have supervised this shocking decline of recent years and yet continue to deny it.

Look no further than 2016, when last year's two Grand Finalists have become shadows of what they were because they've lost a few players to injury. Leeds are a particular case; the so-called best British team of modern times was evidently a house of cards. The British game has always lacked depth compared to the Aussie game, but it's getting particularly bad now.

An excellent post, specifically the first paragraph

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue May 03, 2016 2:53 pm  

Cruncher wrote:

I'm inclined to agree.

Aussie arrogance will always irritate us because we still have some measure of pride, and so we should. But self-kiddology that we are comparable to the NRL won't help. If anything, it plays into the hands of Wood and co, who have supervised this shocking decline of recent years and yet continue to deny it.

Look no further than 2016, when last year's two Grand Finalists have become shadows of what they were because they've lost a few players to injury. Leeds are a particular case; the so-called best British team of modern times was evidently a house of cards. The British game has always lacked depth compared to the Aussie game, but it's getting particularly bad now.

For a long long time the British game has relied on overseas talent to fill the gaps because the British talent has never been enough to pad out an entire league. Now because of the cap we can't get the talent to come over. The top flight historically had been able to entice the ageing top tier or second tier players on big money contracts. Those same contracts now can be paid in Australia without them overpaying (Paramatta excluded) because the cap is much higher.

The result is what we are seeing now, no exciting signings coming over to SL, and the constant prospect of the best talent being poached. No matter how anyone dresses this up, the fans can expect a very poor spectacle for years to come.

Aside from Sam T and SOL, how many of our current crop would get in the 2010 team? That shows how the game has dropped behind both the NRL and union on terms of recruitment/retention.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue May 03, 2016 7:08 pm  

Can't disagree, but it's a lot easier to enumerate the problems than it is to find solutions. And it seems to me what options do exist are only partial solutions at best, and will only bring small incremental change in the short to medium term.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue May 03, 2016 8:00 pm  

ChrisA wrote:

The result is what we are seeing now, no exciting signings coming over to SL

If you don't find Chris Sandow an exciting player to watch then God help you. Although if you prefer a fully rounded controlled performance what about Gidley last week?

ChrisA wrote:

Aside from Sam T and SOL, how many of our current crop would get in the 2010 team.

Well McIllorum, Joel Tomkins and Farrell all played in addition to Sam Tomkins and O'Loughlin whilst Manfredi would be in instead of Goulding and Williams would possibly sneak in in-front of Deacon. In the pack Bateman is a cert before Hansen and Flower and Clubb taking two prop spots from Paleaaseena and any of the other three.

So to me that would be possibly ten certainly nine who'd have walked into Wigan's 2010 Grand Final team.

Noticeably three of the other seven players in that GF team were imports whilst none of Wigan's current imports past the muster and would break into that team. Poor use of quota places currently by Wigan.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue May 03, 2016 10:11 pm  

Paul Youane wrote:

If you don't find Chris Sandow an exciting player to watch then God help you. Although if you prefer a fully rounded controlled performance what about Gidley last week?

Well McIllorum, Joel Tomkins and Farrell all played in addition to Sam Tomkins and O'Loughlin whilst Manfredi would be in instead of Goulding and Williams would possibly sneak in in-front of Deacon. In the pack Bateman is a cert before Hansen and Flower and Clubb taking two prop spots from Paleaaseena and any of the other three.

So to me that would be possibly ten certainly nine who'd have walked into Wigan's 2010 Grand Final team.

Noticeably three of the other seven players in that GF team were imports whilst none of Wigan's current imports past the muster and would break into that team. Poor use of quota places currently by Wigan.

I'll agree it was a poor comparison, the team I had in my head when I rushed to type this leaving work wasn't the team that played in the final, my bad.

Sandow is the NRL cast-off kind of signing I referred to, like Todd Carney and Joel Monaghan, which really proves my point, to get that kind of player we are going to have to take a punt on someone with baggage. He is a great player that fell out of favour, he wasn't drawn to super league for any other reason than he had little other option. Gidley is a classy operator, but he isn't exciting, he's a good version of Matty Smith.

That aside, are you happy with the current state of SL and recruitment overall throughout the league? Your contradictions to my points (some very accurate as I said) point towards you being very happy with SL as it is currently, which I do find a little bizzare.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue May 03, 2016 10:14 pm  

Paul Youane wrote:

If you don't find Chris Sandow an exciting player to watch then God help you. Although if you prefer a fully rounded controlled performance what about Gidley last week?

They weren't exciting players when they came over though. Sandow was an overweight, out of form cast-off, and Gidley was an ageing, injury prone solid not spectacular player.

Both players have turned out to be absolutely fantastic, but this time last year you certainly wouldn't have called either of them that.

However, I do think some exciting players came over, such as Glenn Stewart, Dave Taylor and Carney for example. But again, all were formerly exciting players who were out of form, or in Carneys case, disgraced having been sacked twice.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed May 04, 2016 7:35 am  

Paul Youane wrote:

If you don't find Chris Sandow an exciting player to watch then God help you. Although if you prefer a fully rounded controlled performance what about Gidley last week?

Well McIllorum, Joel Tomkins and Farrell all played in addition to Sam Tomkins and O'Loughlin whilst Manfredi would be in instead of Goulding and Williams would possibly sneak in in-front of Deacon. In the pack Bateman is a cert before Hansen and Flower and Clubb taking two prop spots from Paleaaseena and any of the other three.

So to me that would be possibly ten certainly nine who'd have walked into Wigan's 2010 Grand Final team.

Noticeably three of the other seven players in that GF team were imports whilst none of Wigan's current imports past the muster and would break into that team. Poor use of quota places currently by Wigan.

Well said.

I've seen a couple of people mention how far the quality of our side has dropped since 2010 and how not many of our current players would get in and I can't fathom it out. There's some lads in this current side who'd walk in it (Manfredi, Bateman, Flower etc) and some who wouldn't buy quality wise I'd say they're much of a muchness.

Even back in 2010 Wigan weren't signing ready made NRL stars and we haven't don't that since we signed Trent Barrett (or when we were lucky to get Ryan Hoffman along with Finch/Lima in 2011). We had Pat Richards who was an up and comer in the NRL, Carmont who had always been seen as average and had been released by Newcastle, Piggy Riddell who was always as much of a comedy act as he was a rugby league player and we signed Tommy Leuluai as a youngster from London after he came here as a 19 year old. The only other overseas player I can remember playing was Paleaaesina who in fairness dos come over with a pretty big rep.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed May 04, 2016 9:27 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

Well said.

I've seen a couple of people mention how far the quality of our side has dropped since 2010 and how not many of our current players would get in and I can't fathom it out. There's some lads in this current side who'd walk in it (Manfredi, Bateman, Flower etc) and some who wouldn't buy quality wise I'd say they're much of a muchness.

Even back in 2010 Wigan weren't signing ready made NRL stars and we haven't don't that since we signed Trent Barrett (or when we were lucky to get Ryan Hoffman along with Finch/Lima in 2011). We had Pat Richards who was an up and comer in the NRL, Carmont who had always been seen as average and had been released by Newcastle, Piggy Riddell who was always as much of a comedy act as he was a rugby league player and we signed Tommy Leuluai as a youngster from London after he came here as a 19 year old. The only other overseas player I can remember playing was Paleaaesina who in fairness dos come over with a pretty big rep.

Man for man, I make it even money with the 2010 side. But that side seemed to play the game with a lot more confidence and determination than we do currently, and all those players you mention had formed a very cohesive whole.

It's difficult pinning down the problem with the current team, especially when so many are out injured. We could blame the coach, but Shaun Wane has got us to plenty of finals - he can't have forgotten how to do do that in such a short time. Injuries aside, it's a bit of a conundrum.

I think the class of 2016 is lacking in certain key areas, game management and midfield control for one. Our halfbacks are a real problem in that regard. We know Matty is hit and miss, and even when George is fully fit again, does he offer much leadership? At the same time, SOL, who used to play that role, is appearing less and less. We also have an alarming lack of bite in our front row (mind you, it doesn't help when Tony Clubb puts in an effective big hit, the only one in the whole Warrington game, and immediately gets summoned to the beak). At the same time we are are short a striker or two in the theequarters. That latter issue will be exacerbated by the departures of Sarge and Josh, though I don't think either of those two have done enough on the whole to be massive losses. For me, Manfredi and Gelling are our main danger men, and hopefully Sam will join that clique when he returns - but the more dangerous attackers you can put out there, the more tries you will score.

I hate trotting this out, because it's an easy to say it sitting in an armchair at home, but I think we need to look at a couple of decent purchases if we can find them. I'm not sure what kind of opportunity the Paramatta crisis offers us - if any at all - but I sincerely hope we are sounding several players out as we speak.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed May 04, 2016 4:13 pm  

I don't think we can realistically judge this side until the back end of the season when (hopefully)we'll have a full squad to pick from (aside from Micky Mac) and we'll be involved in some big games. We certainly don't play with the week in week out intensity of the 2010 side but I think the club's outlook changed a few years back when Leeds were picking off tired sides who'd put 100% in to the weekly rounds to then run out of gas in the play offs.

We always look a totally different side come the play offs nowadays but unfortunately we've lost a couple of Grand Finals I feel we should have won. The pressure is on this year though, we must win a trophy.