Re: Latics in administration - Lenagan leading bid : Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:04 am  

Ruddy Duck wrote:

The administration situation at the Latics was a great opportunity for the Stadium to be sold as a separate entity like the Stadiums are in Huddersfield, Hull, Leigh, Salford etc with all who use the facilities paying a rent to a independent company.

That's what happens now technically

Re: Latics in administration - Lenagan leading bid : Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:26 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

That's what happens now technically

No its not, the administrators has sold Wigan Athletic as a football club owning a Stadium.

In other words, the Latics are still the landlord of the Stadium and the Warriors are still the tenants paying a rent which is no different from situation which existed before the Latics went into administration due to debts. That is not the situation at Huddersfield, Hull, Leigh, Salford etc where the Stadiums are owned by independent owners with all clubs paying a rent as tenants to use the facilities.

Wigan Council only owned the lease on the land on which the Stadium is built plus a 14% share of the Stadium which is still owned by the Latics.

Re: Latics in administration - Lenagan leading bid : Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:02 pm  

Ruddy Duck wrote:

No its not, the administrators has sold Wigan Athletic as a football club owning a Stadium.

In other words, the Latics are still the landlord of the Stadium and the Warriors are still the tenants paying a rent which is no different from situation which existed before the Latics went into administration due to debts. That is not the situation at Huddersfield, Hull, Leigh, Salford etc where the Stadiums are owned by independent owners with all clubs paying a rent as tenants to use the facilities.

Wigan Council only owned the lease on the land on which the Stadium is built plus a 14% share of the Stadium which is still owned by the Latics.

This is the first time the two have been combined.

The stadium was owned by 1 company and Latics by another. Latics paid rent to play at the stadium just as we do.

That might change now though but who knows.

Re: Latics in administration - Lenagan leading bid : Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:02 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

This is the first time the two have been combined.

The stadium was owned by 1 company and Latics by another. Latics paid rent to play at the stadium just as we do.

That might change now though but who knows.

The same individual has always owned the stadium and the football club though, so for them, paying rent was akin to moving your wallet from your right pocket to your left.

Re: Latics in administration - Lenagan leading bid : Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:12 pm  

muttywhitedog wrote:

The same individual has always owned the stadium and the football club though, so for them, paying rent was akin to moving your wallet from your right pocket to your left.

True, but they could have lost the stadium if the admins had been as ruthless as their fans suggest

Re: Latics in administration - Lenagan leading bid : Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:11 am  

Egg Chasing wrote:

This is the first time the two have been combined.

The stadium was owned by 1 company and Latics by another. Latics paid rent to play at the stadium just as we do.

That might change now though but who knows.

The Stadium was transferred to the Latics ownership prior to Whelan putting the Latics up for sale, so that whoever bought the Latics would also be buying the Stadium as part of the purchase sale which would make it more attractive to potential buyers of the Latics.

From what I understand, prior to that decision by Whelan, both the Latic's and the Stadium were owned by a third Whelan company called Whelco Holdings Ltd. If any rent was paid by the Latics as you suggest, it was nothing more than a cosmetic transfer from one Whelan company to another Whelan company.

Therefore, the new Spanish owners own the Stadium in the same way as the previous Chinese owners with the Warriors still paying a rent in the same way as they have always done under the terms of the fifty year lease for use of the facilities of the Stadium.

In other words, nothing has changed from the time that Whelan donated the Stadium to the Latics and the bid by the Lenagan Consortium was pointless as the administrators were only interested in selling the Latics and the Stadium as a joint sale of a Football Club owning a Stadium.

The problem that the Warriors now have is a possible increase in rent by the new owners and a problem of what happens at the end of the fifty year rental lease.

All gone pear shaped since 1994 when the idea of a joint Stadium was first suggested with ownership by a independent company and both the Latics and the Warriors paying a rent as tenants in the same way that it is at other joint Stadiums in Rugby League.

Re: Latics in administration - Lenagan leading bid : Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:16 am  

Fifty years is a long time. Wigan should be putting money away now to build up to that point to get free of the stadium - which will be due for replacement or massive upgrade by then anyway.

Re: Latics in administration - Lenagan leading bid : Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:02 am  

Ruddy Duck wrote:

The Stadium was transferred to the Latics ownership prior to Whelan putting the Latics up for sale, so that whoever bought the Latics would also be buying the Stadium as part of the purchase sale which would make it more attractive to potential buyers of the Latics.

From what I understand, prior to that decision by Whelan, both the Latic's and the Stadium were owned by a third Whelan company called Whelco Holdings Ltd. If any rent was paid by the Latics as you suggest, it was nothing more than a cosmetic transfer from one Whelan company to another Whelan company.

Football club 1 company. Stadium another company. Latics owed the stadium company money according to the debts published by the admins (and posted on here i think) so they must have been paying rent in some form.

IFL owns other companies also, doesn't mean Wigan rugby own them too does it?

Latics, as a company, have never owned the stadium. Plenty of clubs do it that way to protect the asset and other "business" reasons.

Whether the new buyers do that or not we won't know, but one concern I do have is what happens to our lease as that was with a company that once this goes through will no longer exist.

Re: Latics in administration - Lenagan leading bid : Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:34 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

Football club 1 company. Stadium another company. Latics owed the stadium company money according to the debts published by the admins (and posted on here i think) so they must have been paying rent in some form.

IFL owns other companies also, doesn't mean Wigan rugby own them too does it?

Latics, as a company, have never owned the stadium. Plenty of clubs do it that way to protect the asset and other "business" reasons.

Whether the new buyers do that or not we won't know, but one concern I do have is what happens to our lease as that was with a company that once this goes through will no longer exist.

Latics went into administration, there was no mention of a stadium management company being in administration. The administrator appointed to control Latics' administration was selling as a package Latics, a training ground and the stadium. Ergo Latics must own the stadium or there would be no reason to sell the stadium and certainly not as part of a deal for the Latics. Had the stadium been sold separately as the Euxton training ground was then Latics would no longer own it but it appears to have been sold along with Latics so Latics (or their prospective new owners) will still own the stadium.

Re: Latics in administration - Lenagan leading bid : Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:51 pm  

wiganermike wrote:

Latics went into administration, there was no mention of a stadium management company being in administration. The administrator appointed to control Latics' administration was selling as a package Latics, a training ground and the stadium. Ergo Latics must own the stadium or there would be no reason to sell the stadium and certainly not as part of a deal for the Latics. Had the stadium been sold separately as the Euxton training ground was then Latics would no longer own it but it appears to have been sold along with Latics so Latics (or their prospective new owners) will still own the stadium.

This is how I understand it from what mates tell me and companies house:

Latics were owned by a company that then owned four other companies. One owned the club, one the stadium, one the training ground, one the chippy. Latics as a club/company didn't own the stadium or the training ground at Euxton. That's why IFL was able to bid for the stadium and not the club and how the training ground was sold.

You're quite right that had the company owning the football club been put into admin then the stadium would stay as is, but the holding company was put into admin and so everything underneath it as well. Latics were never being asset stripped as they didn't own any assets legally. The admins just decided to sell the stadium and club as one entity.

If one of IFL's businesses goes under then WRL are safe. If IFL himself goes bankrupt then we aren't. Same sort of idea I think that tried to protect the stadium if the club ever went pop (and a nice tax fiddle also on how much income the club actually has as they have to pay rent on the stadium and training ground)