Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:43 am  

Stu M wrote:

Agree with you and your mate. We definitely aren't defending with anywhere near the same vigour as the last few seasons, we do seem to be falling off tackles and are missing way more than we normally would.

The Knowles/Sironen/Matautia ban bingo game has started in earnest, its Knowles's turn this week although to be fair he won't be as big of a loss as previously in my opinion, as he has started the season poorly. A week off may do him the world of good.

I also feel we may have under-estimated just how good Woolf was. He goes to the Dolphins (granted not as head coach) and they are 3 from 3 and smashing teams in defence.

I was very critical of us at the Hull game however in the cold light of day when I reflected, we had Batchelor, Hopoate, Hurrell and Matautia all missing and then lost Percival in the warm up. That then meant Makinson went to centre and Ritson came in. We then lost Davies in the first half who had been playing as centre so Sironen had to play there. The back line was decimated which was reflected in our clunky attack.

Also it was obvious that Hull were going to have a response after being smashed by Salford and played quite well.

At this stage in the season it was just good to get a win again. Worryingly though both Lomax and Walmsley are way below par.

The loss of Woolf is massive. He took you backwards in attack from the Holbrook days IMO, but what he added in defence and the ability to do the basics right time and time again is what you made you so tough to beat.

I do wonder, and of course hope, as an oppposing fan whether the WCC win was your peak. Everything you worked towards over the last few years was to win the WCC (Woolf being there was a strange one for me) and now that you have (as well as doing a record 4 in a row) you'll start the downturn now that might see one or two tough seasons whilst you replace the likes of Walmsley, Lomax, Makinson, Percival with the next cabs from the rank.

EDIT - Just to add to the above, I'm likening it to Leeds in 2015 and the retirements of Sinfield, Peacock, Leuluai and then their rebuild since.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:46 am  

No doubt they’ll be up there at the business end of the season but it has to be said when Roby is absent they don’t look half as cohesive as a team, managing his workload will be key for them. Massive loss for Saints if he really does pack in at the end of the season.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:48 am  

apollosghost wrote:

No doubt they’ll be up there at the business end of the season but it has to be said when Roby is absent they don’t look half as cohesive as a team, managing his workload will be key for them. Massive loss for Saints if he really does pack in at the end of the season.

And RL in general. Wish he'd put his hand up for England in the WC. Such a top player.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:52 am  

Egg Chasing wrote:

The loss of Woolf is massive. He took you backwards in attack from the Holbrook days IMO, but what he added in defence and the ability to do the basics right time and time again is what you made you so tough to beat.

I do wonder, and of course hope, as an oppposing fan whether the WCC win was your peak. Everything you worked towards over the last few years was to win the WCC (Woolf being there was a strange one for me) and now that you have (as well as doing a record 4 in a row) you'll start the downturn now that might see one or two tough seasons whilst you replace the likes of Walmsley, Lomax, Makinson, Percival with the next cabs from the rank.

Fair comments. I do think this will be our last season of potentially winning it again and then there will be a transition period unless we get lucky and recruit really well. Matautia will go back to Aus and maybe Sironen, and then as you mention Makinson et al aren't getting any younger and have played a lot of rugby.

Woolf being there was a thank you really as it was his team that won the GF to enable us to play that game in the first place. Him and Wellens are very good friends and will still remain in close contact. Lets not forget that in 3 years, Woolf only managed one WCC game due to Covid.

We do have a couple of potential superstars in the Academy but they are 2-3 years away from being first teamers yet so we are relying on the likes of Welsby staying, Dodd getting back to his pre-injury form and then building a team around the likes of Knowles, Batchelor and Lees.

And I fully agree about Roby. Its clear that they don't think Lussick is the answer so its going to be interesting to see what happens next season.

Roby to Saints is what SOL was to Wigan. Absolute talisman that will be unbelievably hard to replace.

I've been told that we've signed Daryl Clark on a 2 year deal so we'll see if that's true or not.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:41 am  

Stu M wrote:

Fair comments. I do think this will be our last season of potentially winning it again and then there will be a transition period unless we get lucky and recruit really well. Matautia will go back to Aus and maybe Sironen, and then as you mention Makinson et al aren't getting any younger and have played a lot of rugby.

Woolf being there was a thank you really as it was his team that won the GF to enable us to play that game in the first place. Him and Wellens are very good friends and will still remain in close contact. Lets not forget that in 3 years, Woolf only managed one WCC game due to Covid.

We do have a couple of potential superstars in the Academy but they are 2-3 years away from being first teamers yet so we are relying on the likes of Welsby staying, Dodd getting back to his pre-injury form and then building a team around the likes of Knowles, Batchelor and Lees.

And I fully agree about Roby. Its clear that they don't think Lussick is the answer so its going to be interesting to see what happens next season.

Roby to Saints is what SOL was to Wigan. Absolute talisman that will be unbelievably hard to replace.

I've been told that we've signed Daryl Clark on a 2 year deal so we'll see if that's true or not.

Clark to Saints is just a naughty rumour at the moment, not confirmed.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:17 pm  

Saints will be absolutely fine this season. They look like a team full of John Bateman’s at the moment, as in they’re struggling for motivation when it comes to the weekly rounds, after completing the challenge of taking on the NRL’s best (obviously it was just a one off game for Saints). They’ll comfortably get enough wins to make the top 4 and it’ll be business as usual in the play offs and it will be up to all the other teams to see if they can finally get to and past their level. If we think anything else about them, I think we’re being naive.

Longer term there will be a drop off. That is only natural. I think it’ll be gradual but dependant on the ability to keep Welsby and Dodd (although I do feel Dodd has been given a billing he’s not yet really earned), it could be pretty swift. Nobody knows how everything will play out but Roby will retire, Percival looks shot to bits, Lomax, Makinson, Walmsley etc are no spring chickens and the overseas second rowers look like leaving. If you added in exits for Welsby/Dodd, it could go up in smoke pretty quickly. I don’t expect it to happen though.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:53 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Saints will be absolutely fine this season. They look like a team full of John Bateman’s at the moment, as in they’re struggling for motivation when it comes to the weekly rounds, after completing the challenge of taking on the NRL’s best (obviously it was just a one off game for Saints). They’ll comfortably get enough wins to make the top 4 and it’ll be business as usual in the play offs and it will be up to all the other teams to see if they can finally get to and past their level. If we think anything else about them, I think we’re being naive.

Longer term there will be a drop off. That is only natural. I think it’ll be gradual but dependant on the ability to keep Welsby and Dodd (although I do feel Dodd has been given a billing he’s not yet really earned), it could be pretty swift. Nobody knows how everything will play out but Roby will retire, Percival looks shot to bits, Lomax, Makinson, Walmsley etc are no spring chickens and the overseas second rowers look like leaving. If you added in exits for Welsby/Dodd, it could go up in smoke pretty quickly. I don’t expect it to happen though.

Its funny that you reference Dodd as this season (so far) he looks to be playing well within himself. Yes he had a good WCC game culminating in the winning DG but worryingly he is playing reminiscent of what Luke Walsh was like after his bad injury.

Last season up to Good Friday he was superb and our attack in general was great, we were scoring for fun and probably the best period we had attack wise under Woolf. Then of course he gets the bad injury. He seems hesitant to take the line on this season as much, he has a great step but seems happy to just pass now. His last tackle kicking options have been really poor too. Naturally I'm hoping his game improves the more games he plays and his confidence returns as there is a very good player there.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:03 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Agree with you and your mate. We definitely aren't defending with anywhere near the same vigour as the last few seasons, we do seem to be falling off tackles and are missing way more than we normally would.

The Knowles/Sironen/Matautia ban bingo game has started in earnest, its Knowles's turn this week although to be fair he won't be as big of a loss as previously in my opinion, as he has started the season poorly. A week off may do him the world of good.

I also feel we may have under-estimated just how good Woolf was. He goes to the Dolphins (granted not as head coach) and they are 3 from 3 and smashing teams in defence.

I was very critical of us at the Hull game however in the cold light of day when I reflected, we had Batchelor, Hopoate, Hurrell and Matautia all missing and then lost Percival in the warm up. That then meant Makinson went to centre and Ritson came in. We then lost Davies in the first half who had been playing as centre so Sironen had to play there. The back line was decimated which was reflected in our clunky attack.

Also it was obvious that Hull were going to have a response after being smashed by Salford and played quite well.

At this stage in the season it was just good to get a win again. Worryingly though both Lomax and Walmsley are way below par.

I think that is a honest summary. From a selfish perspective I hope it continues until after Good Friday . Perhaps the derby will reinvigorate Saints?

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:14 pm  

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... d-26522121

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... d-26522121

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:01 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

And RL in general. Wish he'd put his hand up for England in the WC. Such a top player.

Add Roby Lomax, Percival Walmsley and Dodd to our World Cup squad I think we’d have beaten Samoa and really competed with the aussies in the final

Saints still the bench mark til they aren’t but I think Wire are the team to beat this year. All the new props seem to be doing well, balanced half back combo and fast outside backs.