Re: Wardle : Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:24 pm  

jonh wrote:

I’m not sure if you are being a pedant or deliberately just trying to argue.

You have to put it in context that players generally do not move position that regularly however when they have the centre second row switch has been consistently more successful and regular than when other players have shifted position.

You could argue 1 and half have but that is more recent as you point out kind of proving the point it was regularly happening (in relation to how often players do change position) over 30 years ago where the trend to move halves to full back is a bit more of something that became a trend in the last decade or so.

We have plenty of examples (again relative to how often players generally change position) in SL at the moment and can within our own team currently in Isa (who was more a centre at Widnes) Bateman (international centre) and players like Hurrell who plays both these days, Watkins all running round currently.

The positions are very similar and have been for a long time, today coaches tend to talk about middles and edges.

Centres and secondrows are grouped as edges.

Looking back over the thread people have comfortably without putting too much thought into it named plenty of players who have successfully transitioned between the 2 positions very well.

It’s all relative of course to how often players change position which as mentioned tends not to be that often but when they do consistently over the years the centre/secondrow switch has been one of the more often instances and more successful.

Feels like no conincidence to me that the SR usually ends up being the one to cover in the centres.

Re: Wardle : Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:16 pm  

jonh wrote:

I’m not sure if you are being a pedant or deliberately just trying to argue.

You have to put it in context that players generally do not move position that regularly however when they have the centre second row switch has been consistently more successful and regular than when other players have shifted position.

You could argue 1 and half have but that is more recent as you point out kind of proving the point it was regularly happening (in relation to how often players do change position) over 30 years ago where the trend to move halves to full back is a bit more of something that became a trend in the last decade or so.

We have plenty of examples (again relative to how often players generally change position) in SL at the moment and can within our own team currently in Isa (who was more a centre at Widnes) Bateman (international centre) and players like Hurrell who plays both these days, Watkins all running round currently.

The positions are very similar and have been for a long time, today coaches tend to talk about middles and edges.

Centres and secondrows are grouped as edges.

Looking back over the thread people have comfortably without putting too much thought into it named plenty of players who have successfully transitioned between the 2 positions very well.

It’s all relative of course to how often players change position which as mentioned tends not to be that often but when they do consistently over the years the centre/secondrow switch has been one of the more often instances and more successful.

I don’t know what a pendant is ??

People haven’t given “loads” of examples. If you consider half dozen examples over 20 odd years as loads then I’m glad you don’t serve in our local chippy. For Wigan very very few have accomplished it.
Bateman is never a centre in the memory of man. The only reason he played there for Wigan was to cover injuries and internationally because we have so few decent centres. KPP will never be a centre. He never carries the ball with two hands and wouldn’t know where start in how to draw a man in. Isa is a fit athlete but isn’t a decent centre and is a SR who never makes a break or make decent yardage. Name me another centre at Wigan who transitioned permanently into the SR?
How many times has Hurrell played SR for Saints? It’s got nothing to do with injuries or suspensions has it? He couldn’t do it permanently because he hasn’t got the fitness and I suspect he wouldn’t want the intensity of playing SR permanently.

Currently there is one player that’s been named as moving from centre to SR ie Watkins. One. I think possibly Griffin at Hull also made the permanent change. There you go two. As I keep saying very few and far between.

If centres and SR are interchangeable why did we sign King and Wardle? Why not make do with Isa and KPP?
I’ll have Carmont and Gleason as centres you take your pick of any the names put forward who have “transitioned”. I know who I will pick.

By the way my original post was centres to SR and you name Bateman??

I’m not being argumentative I’m just stating an opinion that broadly I feel stand’s up.

Re: Wardle : Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:22 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

Feels like no conincidence to me that the SR usually ends up being the one to cover in the centres.

Wingers can and have done it. Bibby at Wigan and currently Handley at Leeds.
How many centres cover the backrow?

Centres are just out of vogue. Once a really good natural centre comes through

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Wardle : Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:22 pm  

griffin has only transitioned to the back row as he's crap at centre.

Re: Wardle : Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:26 pm  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

griffin has only transitioned to the back row as he's crap at centre.

Totally agree but just trying to be honest.
Historically many many backs tried moving to the forwards but very few successfully did it. Generally backs and forwards are just “animals”

Re: Wardle : Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:31 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Totally agree but just trying to be honest.
Historically many many backs tried moving to the forwards but very few successfully did it. Generally backs and forwards are just “animals”

Different animals

Re: Wardle : Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:48 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

I don’t know what a pendant is ??

People haven’t given “loads” of examples. If you consider half dozen examples over 20 odd years as loads then I’m glad you don’t serve in our local chippy. For Wigan very very few have accomplished it.
Bateman is never a centre in the memory of man. The only reason he played there for Wigan was to cover injuries and internationally because we have so few decent centres. KPP will never be a centre. He never carries the ball with two hands and wouldn’t know where start in how to draw a man in. Isa is a fit athlete but isn’t a decent centre and is a SR who never makes a break or make decent yardage. Name me another centre at Wigan who transitioned permanently into the SR?
How many times has Hurrell played SR for Saints? It’s got nothing to do with injuries or suspensions has it? He couldn’t do it permanently because he hasn’t got the fitness and I suspect he wouldn’t want the intensity of playing SR permanently.

Currently there is one player that’s been named as moving from centre to SR ie Watkins. One. I think possibly Griffin at Hull also made the permanent change. There you go two. As I keep saying very few and far between.

If centres and SR are interchangeable why did we sign King and Wardle? Why not make do with Isa and KPP?
I’ll have Carmont and Gleason as centres you take your pick of any the names put forward who have “transitioned”. I know who I will pick.

By the way my original post was centres to SR and you name Bateman??

I’m not being argumentative I’m just stating an opinion that broadly I feel stand’s up.

How many players move positions regularly? Of course there are not loads because players rarely move positions but when they do it tends to be secondrow to centres and more recently 6’s to 1’s.

You can’t change history…Isa was predominantly a centre at the start of his career. Saying he wasn’t a good one (he actually was pretty good) doesn’t make you right.

He has also been a great secondrow for Wigan.

Hurrell was signed as an impact secondrow injuries have meant it hasn’t happened as much as the club planned.

Bateman and KPP both played big minutes at centre.

There is a long list of players that have moved just read the thread. Loads of names on here.

It’s not often players move position so obviously it’s not going yo be full of examples what is being said over the years many (more than any others who tend to move positions) have done it and done it well.

Denying that is inaccurate.

Re: Wardle : Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:47 pm  

jonh wrote:

How many players move positions regularly? Of course there are not loads because players rarely move positions but when they do it tends to be secondrow to centres and more recently 6’s to 1’s.

You can’t change history…Isa was predominantly a centre at the start of his career. Saying he wasn’t a good one (he actually was pretty good) doesn’t make you right.

He has also been a great secondrow for Wigan.

Hurrell was signed as an impact secondrow injuries have meant it hasn’t happened as much as the club planned.

Bateman and KPP both played big minutes at centre.

There is a long list of players that have moved just read the thread. Loads of names on here.

It’s not often players move position so obviously it’s not going yo be full of examples what is being said over the years many (more than any others who tend to move positions) have done it and done it well.

Denying that is inaccurate.

Jon I can read and “loads” of names just have not been mentioned. The vast majority were over 20 years ago. Your definition of loads is questionable at the very least.
Playing “big” minutes?? What does that mean? Both Bateman and KPP at centre are ok in an emergency but never ever in a month of Sundays are they a centre.

Isa a great second row? I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. He’s been a decent squad player. Full stop.

My post was about centres to SR. You keep on about two Wigan players who have played centre occasionally.
The “loads” of centres to SR at Wigan was I think 4 this millennium and included Martin Aspinwall for god’s sake.

I will ask again if “edges” are interchangeable why did we King and Wardle and not make do with Isa and KPP?
You can have your “edges” and I will stick with centres and SRs.

Re: Wardle : Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:51 pm  

Sticking my pedantic head on, surely a centre should be classed as a middle

Re: Wardle : Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:55 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Jon I can read and “loads” of names just have not been mentioned. The vast majority were over 20 years ago. Your definition of loads is questionable at the very least.
Playing “big” minutes?? What does that mean? Both Bateman and KPP at centre are ok in an emergency but never ever in a month of Sundays are they a centre.

Isa a great second row? I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. He’s been a decent squad player. Full stop.

My post was about centres to SR. You keep on about two Wigan players who have played centre occasionally.
The “loads” of centres to SR at Wigan was I think 4 this millennium and included Martin Aspinwall for god’s sake.

I will ask again if “edges” are interchangeable why did we King and Wardle and not make do with Isa and KPP?
You can have your “edges” and I will stick with centres and SRs.

You are taking Wigan in isolation, totally ignoring other teams.

You can stick with it but the game is and has changed.

I actually prefer to see the more skilled centres you crave however we are as a sport increasingly going for athletes over skill.

You are failing to miss the point that players don’t generally change positions, however if they do then they tend to be centres to secondrow and more recently fullbacks and halves.

Isa has been a great secondrow for Wigan. If you don’t recognise that I have to question your player judgement.

Why do teams bring in any players? To improve the team.

Wardle isn’t the type of centre that could transition to secondrow but King certainly is due to his style of play (where this all started I believe).