Re: HKR (CC) : Sun Jul 23, 2023 7:06 pm  

I've said before on this subject, I follow both codes of the sport and let me tell you these exact same discussions are had across the divide every week about toughening the rules in the modern age around head shots, what is foul play, red cards, etc etc etc. A lot of fans, and even players and coaches, lament about it but this isn't going to change with all the stuff around head and brain injuries and the long term effects of playing rugby, and people need to get real and accept it.

Tackle technique has to change, and this is probably more of an issue for League (traditionally the more collision based version of the sport) than Union, but they're going to have do it. And everyone involved in the sport will have to also accept that unpopular or not this might well mean weaker, softer, more passive defence. Easier to make metres, offload and pass, and so therefore easier to score tries and points. And less of the "biff". That's the journey we're on, I don't see the direction changing.

Harsh or not, Shorrocks was far too upright, was leading more with the shoulder than an arm wrapping tackle, and managed to clout someone in the head. The players adapt, or keep getting red carded.

Mainly though I thought that loss was more about our lack of threat in attack. Yeah it was a wet day, but just one up passive runners as everyone else stood about, then give it to Smith to punt as high as he can in the air, and hope French/Field might eventually come up with some magic, is nowhere near enough. The attacking structure isn't good enough this year, and I don't actually think the biggest problem is not making metres.

Re: HKR (CC) : Sun Jul 23, 2023 7:06 pm  

cadoo wrote:

I think we've need this for about ten chuffin years. Who was the last prop that fit the above mold? Jeff Lima? Scott Taylor but he was young at the time. George burgess was supposed to be that guy but that didn't work out.

Props win you pots. Has to be priority number 1 for me.

And a standoff.

Re: HKR (CC) : Sun Jul 23, 2023 7:08 pm  

DannyT wrote:

We can do better than Peet. Dumb tactics, didn’t put a move on all game. Kicking on the third tackle in a golden point semi final game?! That’s the second worst decision I’ve seen our players make in all of my time watching us, beaten only by the stupid kick at goal by Hardaker in the covid Grand Final. Not be papering I’ve any cracks with a cup win this season.

What about Field’s dumb kick over the dead ball line when we were in an excellent position or French’s poor attempt at a drop goal?

Re: HKR (CC) : Sun Jul 23, 2023 7:11 pm  

Ashton Bears wrote:

What's the point in having 17 in the team when Hill did not play at all

We have previous for that.

Re: HKR (CC) : Sun Jul 23, 2023 7:12 pm  

jonh wrote:

We really need to sort out the half back situation. French is not a halfback.

Spot on Jon. But I would also add that we need more punch in the pack as well.

Re: HKR (CC) : Sun Jul 23, 2023 7:13 pm  

Zig wrote:

What about Field’s dumb kick over the dead ball line when we were in an excellent position or French’s poor attempt at a drop goal?

Field’s kick was rubbish execution and wasn’t needed. French shouldn’t be in a position to take drop goals anyway. Ultimately, this team doesn’t execute big moments in semi finals the vast majority of times they present themselves. I blame coaching for that, then the players for not being able to adapt or use their brains.

Re: HKR (CC) : Sun Jul 23, 2023 7:17 pm  

bedfordwarrior wrote:

I've said before on this subject, I follow both codes of the sport and let me tell you these exact same discussions are had across the divide every week about toughening the rules in the modern age around head shots, what is foul play, red cards, etc etc etc. A lot of fans, and even players and coaches, lament about it but this isn't going to change with all the stuff around head and brain injuries and the long term effects of playing rugby, and people need to get real and accept it.

Tackle technique has to change, and this is probably more of an issue for League (traditionally the more collision based version of the sport) than Union, but they're going to have do it. And everyone involved in the sport will have to also accept that unpopular or not this might well mean weaker, softer, more passive defence. Easier to make metres, offload and pass, and so therefore easier to score tries and points. And less of the "biff". That's the journey we're on, I don't see the direction changing.

Harsh or not, Shorrocks was far too upright, was leading more with the shoulder than an arm wrapping tackle, and managed to clout someone in the head. The players adapt, or keep getting red carded.

Mainly though I thought that loss was more about our lack of threat in attack. Yeah it was a wet day, but just one up passive runners as everyone else stood about, then give it to Smith to punt as high as he can in the air, and hope French/Field might eventually come up with some magic, is nowhere near enough. The attacking structure isn't good enough this year, and I don't actually think the biggest problem is not making metres.

I can live with the Shorrocks red because they’re pretty consistent on it now. You’re in more danger of cards playing in tv games, which feels wrong but that’s a different conversation.

I can’t excuse some of the other refereeing decisions, especially in that last 10-15 mins. It’s a tough gig and some calls will be wrong but things like KPP contacting Ryan in the air and the set not being restarted for the Minchella charge down are such simple calls. You know a straightforward call when you see one and don’t even think about what might be given. With KPP I just thought ‘idiot’ and with the charge down I thought we then had a great chance to win it. Some sort of captains challenge needs to come in (although if it would cover that charge down, I’m not sure).

Re: HKR (CC) : Sun Jul 23, 2023 7:17 pm  

Zig wrote:

Spot on Jon. But I would also add that we need more punch in the pack as well.

That’s why I thought Nsemba may play.

It’s a tough one who to drop because the back 3 are playing well but Miski got a couple of things wrong in defence so for me he drops out of the 17 next week with Cust coming to 6 and French on the wing.

Re: HKR (CC) : Sun Jul 23, 2023 7:22 pm  

DannyT wrote:

Field’s kick was rubbish execution and wasn’t needed. French shouldn’t be in a position to take drop goals anyway. Ultimately, this team doesn’t execute big moments in semi finals the vast majority of times they present themselves. I blame coaching for that, then the players for not being able to adapt or use their brains.

We lack experienced leaders in situations like these for me. If you look at how Catalans players have come on with Tomkins and Micky Mac in the team and how they follow their every word, we don’t have that in spine positions. We’ve got a young 7, 9 and 13, a guy who isn’t a natural stand off at 6 and Field at 1, who again isn’t hugely experienced in these games and doesn’t seem a massive talker. I think we win that game today with an experienced leader like Sam Tomkins in there.

Re: HKR (CC) : Sun Jul 23, 2023 7:25 pm  

Zig wrote:

What about Field’s dumb kick over the dead ball line when we were in an excellent position or French’s poor attempt at a drop goal?

to be fair Fields kick was the right thing but bad execution and Frenchs was charged down and the offside guy picked it up but was ignored, smiths kick on the 3rd in extra time is unforgivable