Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:34 am  

RichieS wrote:

I believe Tautai signed a new deal too

He was probably my biggest let down of the season. He was superb until that new deal was in the bag and then he visibly eased off to an absolute snails pace.

There’s a good prop forward in there somewhere but unfortunately motivation is clearly an issue (much like many of our props). His form was that bad post contract signings, I’d have loved to see somebody come in for him but now that they’ve not I just hope he settles down and starts putting a shift in.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:12 pm  

not many wigan players in recent years have signed a new contract mid-season and gone on to light up the stats to justify the new contract. TT and Williams are the two standouts from last year for me. literally as soon as the ink dried, so did their form.

perhaps the club should be refusing mid-season deals and do a proper job in the off-season, which clearly does not seem to be happening! perhaps that would act as an incentive to the players to perform well to actually EARN their contract, not sit it out or play half-heartedly. would stop all of this daft last minute rumour-mongering and clamouring for squad numbers.

just sort it Wigan, laughing stock and the players are running you.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:17 pm  

WiganBurt wrote:

not many wigan players in recent years have signed a new contract mid-season and gone on to light up the stats to justify the new contract. TT and Williams are the two standouts from last year for me. literally as soon as the ink dried, so did their form.

perhaps the club should be refusing mid-season deals and do a proper job in the off-season, which clearly does not seem to be happening! perhaps that would act as an incentive to the players to perform well to actually EARN their contract, not sit it out or play half-heartedly. would stop all of this daft last minute rumour-mongering and clamouring for squad numbers.

just sort it Wigan, laughing stock and the players are running you.

What player in his right mind would accept that approach? They would simply sign for another club, and we would be left scratching round for players to sign during the off season.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:28 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

What player in his right mind would accept that approach? They would simply sign for another club, and we would be left scratching round for players to sign during the off season.

I see your gripe totally, but name me a wigan player in recent years who is on a decent wedge other than Lockers who has signed a mid-season extension or contract improvement and gone on to prove its worth? I don't recall any, with last years' showings from TT and Williams standing out most in recent memory being examples of where they appear to have taken the club for a ride.

i'm no season ticket holder before we go on, and although that does mean I see a lot less than many of you I still have my opinion from the sidelines and its of just as much value.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:25 pm  

WiganBurt wrote:

I see your gripe totally, but name me a wigan player in recent years who is on a decent wedge other than Lockers who has signed a mid-season extension or contract improvement and gone on to prove its worth? I don't recall any, with last years' showings from TT and Williams standing out most in recent memory being examples of where they appear to have taken the club for a ride.

i'm no season ticket holder before we go on, and although that does mean I see a lot less than many of you I still have my opinion from the sidelines and its of just as much value.

I do agree that there seems to be an attitude problem with a lot of the players.

It reminds me quite a bit of the issues during Denis Betts's tenure, which people at the time put down to him not being strong enough to control the old boys. I never thought I'd see the day when I considered SW to be in that category, but I now can't help thinking that, while a lot of the lads were willing to run through walls for him when he first got the job - because they liked him and were his mates - that clearly isn't the case now. And isn't that often what happens when you're too matey with the coach? Eventually, it's more about having fun than doing your job.

While, if I could, I'd unhesitatingly get rid of a significant number of those players who are behaving in this unprofessional manner, they are often able to hide behind contracts, while the salary cap means that playing staff ins-and-outs are now a delicate balancing act. Less complex would be replacing the coach, though that wouldn't be easy either. It would certainly be a tough call, given that SW has won us trophies - and at a push, I'd probably agree that he's earned the right to maybe have one more year in which to try and fix things - but there's no point getting rid of the top man unless you can get someone better. That would be a real tall order, and if you're looking at someone from the NRL, it would likely be a lengthy process as well.

Sadly, there look to be all sorts of reasons why we can't affect big changes quickly. I just hope that several balls are already rolling.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:43 pm  

Cruncher wrote:

I do agree that there seems to be an attitude problem with a lot of the players.

It reminds me quite a bit of the issues during Denis Betts's tenure, which people at the time put down to him not being strong enough to control the old boys. I never thought I'd see the day when I considered SW to be in that category, but I now can't help thinking that, while a lot of the lads were willing to run through walls for him when he first got the job - because they liked him and were his mates - that clearly isn't the case now. And isn't that often what happens when you're too matey with the coach? Eventually, it's more about having fun than doing your job.

While, if I could, I'd unhesitatingly get rid of a significant number of those players who are behaving in this unprofessional manner, they are often able to hide behind contracts, while the salary cap means that playing staff ins-and-outs are now a delicate balancing act. Less complex would be replacing the coach, though that wouldn't be easy either. It would certainly be a tough call, given that SW has won us trophies - and at a push, I'd probably agree that he's earned the right to maybe have one more year in which to try and fix things - but there's no point getting rid of the top man unless you can get someone better. That would be a real tall order, and if you're looking at someone from the NRL, it would likely be a lengthy process as well.

Sadly, there look to be all sorts of reasons why we can't affect big changes quickly. I just hope that several balls are already rolling.

As much as it shouldn't be so, i do believe it's human nature to slack off if allowed to. I think being able to manage that and consistently get players performing to thier potential is what separates good coaches like Wane from great coaches like Bellamy.

Interesting to see you highlight Betts, as for me this situation seems more like Noble i.e good players, who on their day are top draw, but struggle for consistency. At the end of the Noble era i didn't buy into a need for wholesale changes and i don't believe that now. IMO we need a new head coach and a new 2nd in command.

If players don't respond to the regime change (think Fela under Madge) it's time to move on, but our management is that weak at the moment you can't properly judge.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:47 am  

It’s a sign of how the attitude and culture at the club has eroded for me, how these players that now sign new deals visibly slacken off to the point of walking pace.

This happened at Wigan for years until Maguire came but he changed that. Yes there may have been the odd one but it’s gone back to how it used to be with all the players pretty much doing it. I think you also see with the returning players that they see the club as a life raft as well and feel ‘safe’. They come back and it all seems nice and comfy and again motivation seems an issue.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:14 am  

Cruncher wrote:

I do agree that there seems to be an attitude problem with a lot of the players.

It reminds me quite a bit of the issues during Denis Betts's tenure, which people at the time put down to him not being strong enough to control the old boys. I never thought I'd see the day when I considered SW to be in that category, but I now can't help thinking that, while a lot of the lads were willing to run through walls for him when he first got the job - because they liked him and were his mates - that clearly isn't the case now. And isn't that often what happens when you're too matey with the coach? Eventually, it's more about having fun than doing your job.

While, if I could, I'd unhesitatingly get rid of a significant number of those players who are behaving in this unprofessional manner, they are often able to hide behind contracts, while the salary cap means that playing staff ins-and-outs are now a delicate balancing act. Less complex would be replacing the coach, though that wouldn't be easy either. It would certainly be a tough call, given that SW has won us trophies - and at a push, I'd probably agree that he's earned the right to maybe have one more year in which to try and fix things - but there's no point getting rid of the top man unless you can get someone better. That would be a real tall order, and if you're looking at someone from the NRL, it would likely be a lengthy process as well.

Sadly, there look to be all sorts of reasons why we can't affect big changes quickly. I just hope that several balls are already rolling.

indeed. its all well and good having a strong relationship with the gaffer, but ultimately a boss should be your boss, not your best bud. having said that I don't think Wane is the only point of blame in any of this.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:38 am  

WiganBurt wrote:

indeed. its all well and good having a strong relationship with the gaffer, but ultimately a boss should be your boss, not your best bud. having said that I don't think Wane is the only point of blame in any of this.

So how does that work?
Two of Wanes "best buddies" leave and he is being accused of staying too loyal to his players.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:10 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

So how does that work?
Two of Wanes "best buddies" leave and he is being accused of staying too loyal to his players.

Is it really a case that they are best buddies, or more to do with familiarity breeding contempt?

Compared to other coaches, SW has been in charge at Wigan a long time now, and it’s surely human nature that once you’ve adapted fully to a fixed regime, you start to take liberties with it?

It’s also the case that, under Maguire, SW was regarded as the ‘good cop’. I’m not saying that in itself is a bad thing, and I’m not criticising Shaun - in fact, I can't stand it when people bag him empty-headedly. He’s been a great servant to this club, and I’m certain that with a team of new faces in front of him, he’d be as inspirational as ever. But it seems to me that, ever since he took over, the commitment of players across the board (not just individually) has gradually slackened, and form has progressively faded – until we finally reached the nadir that was the end of last season. (Thinking of that Castleford fixture, I have honestly never seen a Wigan side so fail to raise its game when there was still so much to play for).

I blame the players at least as much as the coach – they are supposed to be professionals too. But as I said before, they are protected by the contract system. One thing is certain, though: if Wigan Warriors are to continue as a top-flight club, tinkering with things won’t be enough. Somehow or other, the entire dissatisfactory playing/coaching system needs a damn good shake-up.