Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:41 pm  

Interesting point re Flower not being the same since 2014 . I dont think our pack has. Wane came in for a lot of criticism after for the way our forwards both played and the way he inspired them to. The Flower incident and all the reaction reflected not just on the player but the coach, club and culture. This has maybe impacted the way we play and the way we are told to more than had come to mind before .

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:15 pm  

That Mon wrote:

Interesting point re Flower not being the same since 2014 . I dont think our pack has. Wane came in for a lot of criticism after for the way our forwards both played and the way he inspired them to. The Flower incident and all the reaction reflected not just on the player but the coach, club and culture. This has maybe impacted the way we play and the way we are told to more than had come to mind before .

I think that is a very good call.
I haven't thought of it and there could be some mileage in it.
In 2014 though until the back end of the season we were pretty poor to watch. We put a lot of effort into the Roosters game and it made me wonder at the time if we sacrificed SL that season effectively for one game.
Anyroad it is a long time since 2014 so a bit of rough stuff this season would be appreciated by myself.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:11 pm  

Rumour Fev have signed Gareth Hock, please let it be true.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:03 pm  

I heard that as well too. Fev are due announce a signing imminently and strongly rumoured to be Hock. Think the fans are due to find out tomorrow at the friendly against Halifax who the signing is according to a mate who has links with Fev

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:29 am  

It’s Hock on a one year deal. I’d say that’s his level now. Anyone who fancies signing him must have been going in to the memory banks and remembering the bull of a player he ‘used to be’ because when I’ve seen him recently he looks heavy and slow and pretty easy to handle.

It’s a move that sort of fits in with the waste his career has been. It’s been on a downward spiral for years and that’s sad because his natural talent is/was freakish!

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:46 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

From what I can tell (in truth I don't know what our props have been instructed) it's all about speed and 'finding your front'. Anyone who's played the game knows the importance of 'finding your front', especially for the props. Idea being the tackle ends with you facing the right direction, knees down first for a quick play the ball allowing fast distribution from the dummy half (9) to get the next play moving at speed catching defences off-guard who haven't got time to reset.

So once contact is made and you feel you're going down, don't let the opposition turn you over (turtle) or hold you up in the tackle allowing them to reset their line. Drop to knees and play the ball ASAP.

Disadvantage of this is not many yards made after hitting the defensive line... no fight or struggle in the line making more yards.

Just a matter of tactics.

I think this is a very good explanation and I note that not one of the posters who are criticising the props, or the coach come to that, have picked you up on it. Lest it be forgotten, Shaun Wane did earn his living in his younger days playing...prop. It is more than possible that he knows a thing or two about it, and has even added to his knowledge throughout his coaching stints over the last 20 years or so!!!

I know we have disagreed quite a bit over the years, but credit where it is due. Good post.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:54 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

From what I can tell (in truth I don't know what our props have been instructed) it's all about speed and 'finding your front'. Anyone who's played the game knows the importance of 'finding your front', especially for the props. Idea being the tackle ends with you facing the right direction, knees down first for a quick play the ball allowing fast distribution from the dummy half (9) to get the next play moving at speed catching defences off-guard who haven't got time to reset.

So once contact is made and you feel you're going down, don't let the opposition turn you over (turtle) or hold you up in the tackle allowing them to reset their line. Drop to knees and play the ball ASAP.

Disadvantage of this is not many yards made after hitting the defensive line... no fight or struggle in the line making more yards.

Just a matter of tactics.

The problem with this is that we have to do something with the ball when the player has found his front. That is when things start to go wrong.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:06 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

I think this is a very good explanation and I note that not one of the posters who are criticising the props, or the coach come to that, have picked you up on it. Lest it be forgotten, Shaun Wane did earn his living in his younger days playing...prop. It is more than possible that he knows a thing or two about it, and has even added to his knowledge throughout his coaching stints over the last 20 years or so!!!

I know we have disagreed quite a bit over the years, but credit where it is due. Good post.

Thanks. And yes we have disagreed, I see no problem with that, it allows for debate and discussion. All good with me.

Back to the rugby...

Yes I do believe the props have been instructed to play in the manner I described, which is why fans need to watch the speed of the play of the ball and how quickly the prop plays the ball, not just how many yards they make post contact, that's why stats don't always/often paint the full picture.

For one, I welcome Tommy as a 9 over Micky, if we're looking for a fast PTB from dummy half I want a 9 who's quick off the mark, can scoot and then distribute at pace, I believe at our club Tommy is the best fit, and perhaps one day Ganson.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:58 pm  

One thing I remember Andrew Johns saying during a TV commentary (State Of Origin, I think) was that it's not always what the guys with the ball are doing that's important, but the guys who don't have it. How hard are the dummy runners running? Are they busting a gut to ask questions and getting defenders make wrong decisions? IMO that's been absent from our rugby for a couple of years.

Cas last year were all surging forwards, giving their halves options and confusing defences. Yes their play was quite structured, but it wasn't one-dimensional. Our style was too predictable whether it was the one-up rugby from the forwards or the pass out wide where Tomkins slots into the line. Far too often we looked clueless and lacking direction and now Tomkins, Escare, Williams and TL are all fit, I expect (and demand) that our play improves.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:11 pm  

Levrier wrote:

The problem with this is that we have to do something with the ball when the player has found his front. That is when things start to go wrong.

Sorry I don't follow. Do you mean the issue is the play the ball and distribution from the dummy half (9)?