Re: 21 man squad to face York Friday : Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:03 am  

nidger wrote:

Wow the critism of Tony Clubb tonight is deafening, played 50 odd minutes, scored a try all in all a good first hit out, enough to make the 17 next week?

Possibly his best game in about 3 years and I'd gove him no more than a 6/10

50 or so mins (which to be fair is around 3 x times his normal.contribution)
About 8 hit ups (which about 2 were in his own 20 when coming out of trouble) and again about double his normal contribution
About a dozen tackles, id guess maybe half were 3rd man in,
Usual late hit giving away a penalty
And the first 10mins he was on he passed the ball the first 3 times he had it (he must have thought he was cuthbertson).

All against a championship team that were struggling with players out

Let's not make out it was some kind of herculean performance, he was alright, and if he did that 90% of the time against SL opposition I wouldn't call him out for the BFUT he is.
As it is he provides that type of contribution once a season of were lucky.

Re: 21 man squad to face York Friday : Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:27 am  

Jukesays wrote:

Possibly his best game in about 3 years and I'd gove him no more than a 6/10

50 or so mins (which to be fair is around 3 x times his normal.contribution)
About 8 hit ups (which about 2 were in his own 20 when coming out of trouble) and again about double his normal contribution
About a dozen tackles, id guess maybe half were 3rd man in,
Usual late hit giving away a penalty
And the first 10mins he was on he passed the ball the first 3 times he had it (he must have thought he was cuthbertson).

All against a championship team that were struggling with players out

Let's not make out it was some kind of herculean performance, he was alright, and if he did that 90% of the time against SL opposition I wouldn't call him out for the BFUT he is.
As it is he provides that type of contribution once a season of were lucky.

The master at hitting the halfback after the pass or kick, 10 minute Tony is still useless

Re: 21 man squad to face York Friday : Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:07 am  

He was alright yesterday but I just feel like he's not offering enough to justify not giving a younger forward (e.g Kilner) the experience. He isn't really suited to the modern game either, we need forwards who will standardly do a couple of 20 min stints at high intensity, and be able to go even longer than that if we get injuries.

The impact of a forward not being able to get into position at marker (or in the defensive line) is bigger now too IMO. Before it might lead to a penalty for holding down or offside and you would be able to reset your line. Now the opposition still gets another set, but they keep their momentum and you're still left scrambling, maybe giving up further set restarts or a try.

It's a shame in some ways, because I think the rule changes will bring about the demise of the big impact prop, which I've always enjoyed watching. It's too late for Clubb to adapt though, time to focus on the younger forwards.

Re: 21 man squad to face York Friday : Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:32 am  

Here's a question...

Is Clubb the worst player in our top 25 squad? I can think of a few of the young lads that are probably on a par with him, but they've all got upsides.

Not sure what he brings to the team at all.

Re: 21 man squad to face York Friday : Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:48 am  

Clubb shouldn’t have been given that new deal, we all know that and it’s was baffling how he got two years but I am loathed to give him too much stick. He’s been a good player for us over the years but his time should’ve been up. We’ve had a couple of years worth of performances that just aren’t good enough but I throw the questions at the management for keeping a player on who is clearly well past his best.

He played ok last night in fairness but the frustrating thing for him for me has been that he has shown he can play when he’s forced to. We had a spell of about a month in 2019 (The games included HKR away when Powell won it with a drop goal and Leeds away when Clubb scored in the corner) where there was only him fit from the senior props and he stepped up, took plenty of carries, was making between 80m-120m a game, 30-40 tackles and was generally very good but as soon as senior players came back, he put his cue on the rack and went back to 5 carries a game for 20 metres and 10 tackles. That should’ve been the end of his Wigan career IMO.

Re: 21 man squad to face York Friday : Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:13 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

He's made 13 errors in his 4 games. Today was probably his best game and yet he still made 3 errors, two deep in our own half, one of which was unforced. What would he need to do for you to say he hasn't done OK? I hope he will bounce back (maybe after some time on loan in the Championship) but he hasn't done OK.

Surely it depends on perspective? What was expected of him? I doubt anyone was expecting strong carries from our own 20 because he's not got the size. I doubt anyone was expecting mazy 50 metre breaks from deep or flashy play because he's not at that level. In fact I doubt anyone was expecting much at all really given he's barely played in a year and has rarely played on the wing before. It's just a case of give him a go. I don't think there was anyone suggesting he's ready to be a first team regular. It's just been a case of using our squad given the injuries we have and getting him 2 or 3 games in Super League - test him and see what needs working on. After last night he's managed to get the monkey off his back by getting a try - still some errors so if French, Gildart or Manfredi don't return next week it's a perfect chance to let Halsall have a game on the wing - as he had a decent game.

Overall, based on expectations, I'd have said Hanley has done okay.

Re: 21 man squad to face York Friday : Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:54 pm  

Cherry.Pie wrote:

Surely it depends on perspective? What was expected of him? I doubt anyone was expecting strong carries from our own 20 because he's not got the size. I doubt anyone was expecting mazy 50 metre breaks from deep or flashy play because he's not at that level. In fact I doubt anyone was expecting much at all really given he's barely played in a year and has rarely played on the wing before. It's just a case of give him a go. I don't think there was anyone suggesting he's ready to be a first team regular. It's just been a case of using our squad given the injuries we have and getting him 2 or 3 games in Super League - test him and see what needs working on. After last night he's managed to get the monkey off his back by getting a try - still some errors so if French, Gildart or Manfredi don't return next week it's a perfect chance to let Halsall have a game on the wing - as he had a decent game.

Overall, based on expectations, I'd have said Hanley has done okay.

Oh for sure I wasn't expecting all that, just the basics of generally catching kicks and not losing the ball in the tackle. Is there an amount of errors he could make before you would say he hasn't done ok? His record in a game so far is 5, which most people seemed to characterise as 'solid'. I want him to do well but don't get the point in saying he did regardless of what actually happens, he is a professional sportsman.

Re: 21 man squad to face York Friday : Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:02 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Oh for sure I wasn't expecting all that, just the basics of generally catching kicks and not losing the ball in the tackle. Is there an amount of errors he could make before you would say he hasn't done ok? His record in a game so far is 5, which most people seemed to characterise as 'solid'. I want him to do well but don't get the point in saying he did regardless of what actually happens, he is a professional sportsman.

But generally he has been catching kicks. He's been more solid than some of our other wing prospects in their youth in that area. It's the errors in other areas that have been more of an issue - dropping the ball in contact a bit too much. I'd expect errors from someone who isn't quite physically what you'd expect for a Super League winger though. Even in his best seasons 3 or 4 errors a game for Burgess was fairly normal. And for Davies in his final season with us.

That's why in context I think he's done okay based on expectations. There's certainly a lot to work on but I just think whether it was Hanley, Halsall or any other youngster in that position I'd expect errors and I wouldn't expect them to be considered a starting winger for more than 4 or 5 games in a row.

Re: 21 man squad to face York Friday : Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:14 am  

In the academy Hanley mainly played FB and never really came under pressure from the chasers to the same extent FB or wing does at first team level. His greatest asset was his support play through the middle, as coincidentally was Joe Shorrocks, This is something neither have had the chance to demonstrate in the first team to any extent, especially Hanley with him being played out of position..

Re: 21 man squad to face York Friday : Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:38 am  

Cherry.Pie wrote:

Even in his best seasons 3 or 4 errors a game for Burgess was fairly normal. And for Davies in his final season with us.

You should let Opta know. According to them no player in Super League history has even made half as many errors per game as Hanley in a season.