Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:46 am  

Dave Taylor on a pay per game deal maybe

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:36 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Your not happy that were at cap limit? Why?
Or
Surely you can't be unhappy about being "Over it" when you have no evidence to say that we are? That would be a very strange thing to be unhappy about, something that hasn't happened?

yes, i'm totally unhappy we are at our cap limit having technically not increased the squad in any way. we've brought two players in but lost two players. the players who are with us have either earned or demanded pay rises or have been awarded them as part of their contracts which shows that the club is not managing this very well. we've been left with hardly anything to spare to develop or bring in new players, while some of the average at best players we have in the squad are happily earning their small fortunes and turning in half-hearted performances.

IL has said himself that he has now pumped his own money into the club for the last two seasons. the club is forever trying to market itself elsewhere for "quick-win" bucks. does this sound like a club being run well enough? it doesn't to me. we brought out our squad numbers only this week, which i'm sure has cost the club a hefty sum in lost earnings from shirt printing before / during / after Christmas. it just seems to be that we literally are a bit of a laughing stock to other clubs, which is no bad thing, but perhaps they have a point. how do the likes of Cas and Leeds constantly play good rugby no matter what goes on behind the scenes? Cas spend half as much as us and seem to be so well drilled as a club on and off the pitch and this is what I would like to see from Wigan.

but as it stands, referring back to my previous posts on here on the subject, we seem far from it.

and yes, if it turns out we've gone over the cap i'll be bloody fuming. why wouldn't I? its a rumour doing the rounds... is this not a rumour thread?!

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:59 pm  

Don’t remember Leeds playing good rugby in 2016.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:50 pm  

WiganBurt wrote:

yes, i'm totally unhappy we are at our cap limit having technically not increased the squad in any way. we've brought two players in but lost two players. the players who are with us have either earned or demanded pay rises or have been awarded them as part of their contracts which shows that the club is not managing this very well. we've been left with hardly anything to spare to develop or bring in new players, while some of the average at best players we have in the squad are happily earning their small fortunes and turning in half-hearted performances.

IL has said himself that he has now pumped his own money into the club for the last two seasons. the club is forever trying to market itself elsewhere for "quick-win" bucks. does this sound like a club being run well enough? it doesn't to me. we brought out our squad numbers only this week, which i'm sure has cost the club a hefty sum in lost earnings from shirt printing before / during / after Christmas. it just seems to be that we literally are a bit of a laughing stock to other clubs, which is no bad thing, but perhaps they have a point. how do the likes of Cas and Leeds constantly play good rugby no matter what goes on behind the scenes? Cas spend half as much as us and seem to be so well drilled as a club on and off the pitch and this is what I would like to see from Wigan.

but as it stands, referring back to my previous posts on here on the subject, we seem far from it.

and yes, if it turns out we've gone over the cap i'll be bloody fuming. why wouldn't I? its a rumour doing the rounds... is this not a rumour thread?!

"Technically not increased the squad" - This is the issue I brought up on another thread - The pay increases given to some of our Top Performing youngsters are why I class them as new signings. If Budgie/Williams/Davies/Marshall/Gildart etc. had progressed "Average" then they potentially would all be on far less than they are on now.
The fact they have progressed so well and are now being remunerated with deals that are in parallel with their worth on the Market surely should be seen as a good thing? We want them to improve, we want them to become the best and we need to pay them their worth unlike years ago when we paid them a pittance, didn't invest in them and they left.

If were talking about some of the more established players i.e. FPN, TT or Joel for example then I would personally give "Some" reasons for perceived lack of performance r value for money but I would agree the club needs to minimise these issues as much as possible.

I don't see the club trying to make "Quick Win Bucks" and that this looks unprofessional, I see it as forward thinking, trying new avenues however I suppose that depends on peoples outlooks. Not sure however on one hand we can want the club to be the best, sign the best players, attract the best etc and then criticise them for trying to make the money that is needed to do this and call the club and claim it isn't being well run enough?

I think Matty B has answered the question relating to other teams constantly playing great Rugby - Not sure that applies to Leeds/Cas or any other club for that matter (800 pages on Leeds site about getting rid of McDermott etc. points to a club that has had it's issues over the years and as for Cas, Low expectations are easy to achieve).

I never said that if we were over the cap you shouldn't be unhappy
What I said was you or no-one else has no actual evidence that we are anywhere near having that problem yet still using it as a stick to beat the club and it's management with even though it may not be anything like true?

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:46 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

Ben Flower : 17st 2lbs
TT : 17 st 4lbs
Tony Club : 17 st 6lbs
FPN : 17st 8lbs

Just how big do you want them mate?


I wasn't calling you lazy. I was calling the use of catch all phrases lazy. There is a difference but if you took any offence then I apologise.

Oh, and using your dog analogy I'll take the smaller Staffordshire Bull Terrier over the much larger collie or Labrador any day of the week! We can all choose examples that support what we're saying which, in fact, was exactly my point.

If Flower is 17st 2lbs I will show my arris at the top of King Street.
Not sure about the other guys but if they are all +17st they only play with 13st of it.
Your last response asked who I thought lacked aggression to which I responded together with other reasons why I think the pack is weak particularly the front row to which you didn't respond so I assume you agree with my comments or getting tired of the debate.
At the end of the day we both want the team to do well we just don't agree on the quality of the pack particularly last season. For me its a new season so the players start with a fresh page - good and under performing players. I hope we change our style and the forwards start to play like forwards again. Genuinely that would be enough for me as a starter for ten

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:32 pm  

The Whiffy Kipper wrote:

Dave Taylor on a pay per game deal maybe

Don’t think those deals exist but I would certainly take him,he did well at Cats and is now in much better shape.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:20 am  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

If Flower is 17st 2lbs I will show my arris at the top of King Street.
Not sure about the other guys but if they are all +17st they only play with 13st of it.
Your last response asked who I thought lacked aggression to which I responded together with other reasons why I think the pack is weak particularly the front row to which you didn't respond so I assume you agree with my comments or getting tired of the debate.
At the end of the day we both want the team to do well we just don't agree on the quality of the pack particularly last season. For me its a new season so the players start with a fresh page - good and under performing players. I hope we change our style and the forwards start to play like forwards again. Genuinely that would be enough for me as a starter for ten

Hi Itchy, you obviously don't see it but you've proven my point with your last post. All those weights are correct at the time of writing but as you point out yourself, size alone isn't the issue if they don't play to that weight. It's not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog, if you will...

Sorry about not responding to your individual assessments. I just wanted to know your thoughts and hadn't intended it as a reason to argue with you. For the record I think your reasoning is completely flawed: You have no idea what JT would do if he was chinned. It's just supposition based on what you want to believe. TT at times has been outstanding, including at the start of last year as has been mentioned several times on this thread. To say he has 'never dominated anyone' is completely false and again based on what you want to believe. Flower hasn't been the same since 2014: well he missed pretty much the whole of 2015 through his ban and pretty much the whole of last year through injury so it's hardly surprising is it? I won't argue regarding FPN as, overall, he's been a disappointment. That said, when he has been arsed he's looked like the player we all thought we'd signed so, again, it's nothing to do with size or ability. Merely application.

I agree with your last sentiment and I know we both want the club to do well and entertain. Let's see if a relatively injury free season gives us that before we go writing players off though. Clean sheet and all that as you rightly say.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:42 am  

The Whiffy Kipper wrote:

Dave Taylor on a pay per game deal maybe

+1
or release one of the deadwood

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:04 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

Hi Itchy, you obviously don't see it but you've proven my point with your last post. All those weights are correct at the time of writing but as you point out yourself, size alone isn't the issue if they don't play to that weight. It's not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog, if you will...

Sorry about not responding to your individual assessments. I just wanted to know your thoughts and hadn't intended it as a reason to argue with you. For the record I think your reasoning is completely flawed: You have no idea what JT would do if he was chinned. It's just supposition based on what you want to believe. TT at times has been outstanding, including at the start of last year as has been mentioned several times on this thread. To say he has 'never dominated anyone' is completely false and again based on what you want to believe. Flower hasn't been the same since 2014: well he missed pretty much the whole of 2015 through his ban and pretty much the whole of last year through injury so it's hardly surprising is it? I won't argue regarding FPN as, overall, he's been a disappointment. That said, when he has been arsed he's looked like the player we all thought we'd signed so, again, it's nothing to do with size or ability. Merely application.

I agree with your last sentiment and I know we both want the club to do well and entertain. Let's see if a relatively injury free season gives us that before we go writing players off though. Clean sheet and all that as you rightly say.

I am not usually an attendee of friendly games but its a decent squad for a change for the Leyth game so hoping to get there and as I say hoping to see a distinct improvement in effort and attitude as a minimum with hopefully a few new moves given a try out.
I try to start every season with a positive and won't knock any player who gives it his all even if that sometimes isn't good enough. Where I think we don't agree is that I think we have been poor for several seasons for many varied reasons but happy to move on provided that behind the scenes changes in attitude, expectations and attention to detail are being addressed. I know that I come as negative but actually I don't think that I am but I just want my team to give me a bit of pride back and I want to look forward to a game rather than going as a chore.
I didn't expect any major new signings this season but looking forward to seeing some of the younger guys kicking on and hopefully some of the old timers such as JT & TL having far better season than last year.

Flower is down as 16st by the way on the Wigan site which is still probably exaggerated

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:21 am  

nikos wrote:

+1
or release one of the deadwood

You can't just jettison players like that; they would still count on the salary cap. Aside from that, it's a terrible idea to release someone to sign a player who clearly has major off field issues, and has just been sacked by a Championship side.