Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:32 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Taking a Class A drug is illegal it doesn't matter what profession he is in it is illegal which for reason people seem to forget.

That's not technically true. Possession and dealing of class A's are both illegal, but having them in your system isn't.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:34 pm  

RichieS wrote:

Be interesting to know how many of you actually know Zak personally, how many of you can actually say "he's an idiot, he's a tool, he's trouble etc" and actually say this because you have met him personally and he lived up to that mantle. I doubt many of you can say "I asked Zak for an autograph or my kid asked him for a photo and he acted like a complete *bleep*? There are a lot of mitigating circumstances for the behavior that alot of you keep bringing up that left Zak in mental limbo, though not an excuse, unless you know him personally you would not be able to understand.

Is he a model professional like Lockers, Farrell etc? No. Is he a young man balancing being a professional sportsman within a generation that knows no limits? Yes. Has he got himself into stupid, alcohol fueled situations that reflect badly on him? Yes. Is it time for everyone, especially those that do not know him to stop being so judgmental? Yes. Does he deserve a chance either with us or another club to play rugby league? YES!

There is an awful lot wrong with his behavior in the past, I do not for one moment condone any of it, but, I do feel like each of the cases he was dealt a punishment so the matter is closed. To keep bringing these incidents up to judge him presently is unfair. There comes a tipping point and we are at it, let the lad move forward, let him take HIS life forward without the consistently being branded for two/three flash points in his past. As fans of the sports, we should all want a player like Zak Hardacre playing rugby league.

Yes I know Zak personally and yes I want to see him happy, settled, enjoying life and playing rugby. If that is at Wigan then I will be even happier for him. I know the club and they will support him in all aspects of life, not just sporting. In my opinion, Wigan is the best place for him.

Good post

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:07 pm  

RichieS wrote:

The thing most people don't know, because it isn't public knowledge or written in the press is that Zak actively wants to make a change..

Not written in the press? Every episode going back a few years now is followed by a "I want to change" interview afterwards.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:23 pm  

NSW wrote:

Have we got a goal kicking centre in the squad?

Jack Higginson scored 3 tries, set 2 more up and kicked 7/8 goals for the reserves last night, no idea on the level of competition.

Also a nice 70m try from Gabe Hamlin

Beltin interview with SW on Wigan TV where he states that Higginson will be considered for the Widnes game. Sounds like the lad has responded well to not going on the Aussie which is great hear.

[Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy]

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:39 pm  

IF we sign Hardaker, it will only be a matter of time before he lets us down. The number of indiscretions over a number of years says he’s had plenty of chances to prove he’s grown up or wants to change. He clearly either won’t or can’t. We need to stay well clear and start to learn from previous mistakes like re-signing Hock.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:49 pm  

RichieS wrote:

Be interesting to know how many of you actually know Zak personally, how many of you can actually say "he's an idiot, he's a tool, he's trouble etc" and actually say this because you have met him personally and he lived up to that mantle. I doubt many of you can say "I asked Zak for an autograph or my kid asked him for a photo and he acted like a complete *bleep*? There are a lot of mitigating circumstances for the behavior that alot of you keep bringing up that left Zak in mental limbo, though not an excuse, unless you know him personally you would not be able to understand.

Is he a model professional like Lockers, Farrell etc? No. Is he a young man balancing being a professional sportsman within a generation that knows no limits? Yes. Has he got himself into stupid, alcohol fueled situations that reflect badly on him? Yes. Is it time for everyone, especially those that do not know him to stop being so judgmental? Yes. Does he deserve a chance either with us or another club to play rugby league? YES!

There is an awful lot wrong with his behavior in the past, I do not for one moment condone any of it, but, I do feel like each of the cases he was dealt a punishment so the matter is closed. To keep bringing these incidents up to judge him presently is unfair. There comes a tipping point and we are at it, let the lad move forward, let him take HIS life forward without the consistently being branded for two/three flash points in his past. As fans of the sports, we should all want a player like Zak Hardacre playing rugby league.

Yes I know Zak personally and yes I want to see him happy, settled, enjoying life and playing rugby. If that is at Wigan then I will be even happier for him. I know the club and they will support him in all aspects of life, not just sporting. In my opinion, Wigan is the best place for him.

Firstly I’m not claiming to know him personally. I do however know a lot of people that have coached him, and played with him I in both his amateur and professional career.

I was also whiteness to him telling a group of 9 year old kids, many of whome were Leeds fans but wearing the colours of a Wakefield amateur club to putting it politely “Go away” when they asked for a photo with him prior to a Wakefield Leeds game, every other Leeds player that was asked was happy to oblige.

I’m also aware of more than one situation where he has done wrong and been assisted by his respective club to make it go away rather than be appropriately punished.

Speaking to people who have coached him I am told his issues started to occur around the time the pro clubs and rep youth teams started to take a real interest in him. It became attitudinal and he started to believe his own hype.

I think it is admirable that he wants to change, but how many times does he have to be given before he makes that change. There comes a point in life where you have to take accountability for your own actions rather than blaming circumstances and social circles and say I will change. There have been many occasions where he has had the opportunity to correct his behaviour and sort himself out but he has failed to do so.

We all have issues in our private lives, we all have stresses and have to cope with them, and yes we all make mistakes but to consistently repeat a negative behavioural pattern without really taking responsibility for it and learning from it shows in my opinion he is unlikely to change.

I genuinely hope I am wrong, he is clearly a very talented lad but at the same time let’s not pretend he hasn’t acted in a way that has brought this upon himself after many many opportunities to change, some of which were so big they became public knowledge but others that were able to be dealt with by Leeds in particular but also Cas to endure they got him on the field regardless.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:42 am  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

RichieS wrote:

As someone stated, its only 60/70 miles away, so said negative influences would still be a factor. albeit a little less accessible. It is in the club I believe, I feel they have the correct personnel and support network to support and guide Zak. The move will help, although not affiliated with WW anymore, I feel Josh C will also be a hugely positive influence.

The thing most people don't know, because it isn't public knowledge or written in the press is that Zak actively wants to make a change. He wanted to stay in Australia, a move back to the UK, let alone Yorkshire wasn't his Plan A so to speak. I will probably get lynched here, but the culture at Cas wasn't exactly the perfect fit. What I am trying to say is that DP openly expects high-end rugby performances, that is all.

As far as I am aware, no one involved in the matter is one bit miffed or annoyed at how things are moving forward, Zak has and is being fully supported by all involved. What is not being reported or said is that the most important matter to all involved with rugby league as a sport is Zaks mental well being.

Richie I stated that it is only 60 west of Yorkshire but in reality it doesn't matter how far because if someone wants to carry on breaking the law they will carry on breaking the law irrespective where they are or with whom they associate.

How many chances do you give someone? As I have stated elsewhere I am all for giving people a second chance but repeat offenders rarely change their ways although I am sure that there are always examples that can be quoted. Hardaker I would suggest thinks about himself first, second and third because historically he has shown very little respect for his team mates, club or opponents. If he was a young kid of 18 or 19 and it was a first offence I would actually hope that the club would help and assist the lad however, he is a grown man with several offences against his name with nothing to suggest that he can or even wants to change his ways.

I have genuine sympathy for people with problems however sometimes irrespective of how much support people may be offered they just don't take up on the support and never move on.

Personally I would ban Hardaker and anyone else for that matter for taking Class a drugs or performance enhancing drugs for life or as a minimum at least 5 years which effectively is for life. I don't know Hardaker, I have never met him nor spoken to him so it isn't personal its just the fact that I am strongly in favour of banning players for drug abuse and that is before we even talk about his general behaviour. This isn't a character assassination because he is pretty good at that himself.

From your comments it sounds like he is coming to the club which for me is very disappointing and sends out the wrong message to other players at the club and within the game. Hey I hope the guy has some sort of epiphany and becomes a changed character but unfortunately his tracked record would suggest otherwise.
If this was Joe Bloggs a 19 year old lad from Norley Hall who had a lot of promise but had dabbled in drugs and had the odd fight in King Street every Saturday night I don't think that the club would give the time of day. Why should the club treat Hardaker any differently??

By the way what would a player have to do for you to say that it would be unacceptable for the club to sign him? Im not having a pop Richie I am just genuinely interested because our views are so different on this matter. If we are to sign him I cant wait to hear what rationale IL puts behind because to me there doesn't appear to be any rationale other than maybe we've got him on the cheap which if im honest is a little dispiriting.

Its only early in the season but for the first time in a long while there is a little buzz back at the club that this move for me just takes the shine off that.

Perhaps I will be in the minority and maybe Im just an owd fart who thought that as a club we had stronger principles than this.

Itchy I agree with your comments, if i had done one of the misdemeanors that Hardaker has been found guilty of I would be sacked, and I would receive little sympathy. Having a natural talent at sport seems to give some sportstars a free ticket to behave with little or no moral judgement.

Its often quoted that Rugby League is the sport of the working classes, is it wrong to expect the players to conform to the standards that 99% of the working population have to adhere to every day .

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:11 am  

stpatricks wrote:

Itchy I agree with your comments, if i had done one of the misdemeanors that Hardaker has been found guilty of I would be sacked, and I would receive little sympathy. Having a natural talent at sport seems to give some sportstars a free ticket to behave with little or no moral judgement.

Its often quoted that Rugby League is the sport of the working classes, is it wrong to expect the players to conform to the standards that 99% of the working population have to adhere to every day .

Hardaker has been sacked!

I’m playing Devils advocate here. In the scenario you mention above, you would possibly be sacked but you would not be prevented from ever working again. You’d be able to get another job once any punishment had been served.

Why should it be any different for an athlete? Hardaker has stepped out of line several times and has been duly punished by the the powers that be. Whether that’s a suspension or on this occasion dismissal from his post. It would be completely wrong to say he should never be allowed to ply his trade again.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:16 am  

Bigredwarrior wrote:

Hardaker has been sacked!

I’m playing Devils advocate here. In the scenario you mention above, you would possibly be sacked but you would not be prevented from ever working again. You’d be able to get another job once any punishment had been served.

Why should it be any different for an athlete? Hardaker has stepped out of line several times and has been duly punished by the the powers that be. Whether that’s a suspension or on this occasion dismissal from his post. It would be completely wrong to say he should never be allowed to ply his trade again.

Spot on really. People get sacked and probably have to move into another job that more than likely pays less.

That's ZH's current situation.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:32 pm  

Bigredwarrior wrote:

Hardaker has been sacked!

I’m playing Devils advocate here. In the scenario you mention above, you would possibly be sacked but you would not be prevented from ever working again. You’d be able to get another job once any punishment had been served.

Why should it be any different for an athlete? Hardaker has stepped out of line several times and has been duly punished by the the powers that be. Whether that’s a suspension or on this occasion dismissal from his post. It would be completely wrong to say he should never be allowed to ply his trade again.

Im not saying he should be prevented from working again, I am asking why should a rugby player be allowed more freedom to behave inappropriately than say a binman, dinner lady, shop worker etc does talent escuse any misbehaviour?