Re: Rumours and signings v7 : Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:29 pm  

inside_man wrote:

Would you not class O'Carroll as a senior prop now? Fair enough he hasn't had THAT many games, but he's not exactly a youngster anymore.

No. I wouldn't put him alongside Stuart Fielden, Jeff Lima, Lee Mossop, Paul Prescott, Andy Coley, Ben Cross etc - all I'd class as senior props. I accept Mossop is younger, but his performances are so good he falls into that category.

I rate O'carroll. Works hard, tough lad and gives 100%. However he's had a torrid time with injuries and has barely played. He's an unknown quality as to how he will comeback. A lot has changed at Wigan since he last played.

For me props win you pots. They're crucial to any side with title aspirations. Having sufficient depth is paramount. Just going with four senior forwards is asking for trouble. Losing Coley, Cross and Davies and just going with O'carroll and Crosby is asking for trouble. That's too much of a loss for me. O'carroll is not even close to Coley or Cross and Crosby hasn't played a game of Super League yet. I doubt we'll see Fielden or O'carroll play Super League this year and to have two of your "senior props" going into the following season with that track record is risky.

Prop is the area I'd look to strengthen. We have quota spots and just a few pages beforehand I listed many props that were available. Time for a trip to AUS Ian!

Re: Rumours and signings v7 : Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:51 am  

[quote="The Ginger Pearl"]You dont think we'd be any weaker without Coley? He is a massively under-rated player in this team IMO.[/quote

I've said on other threads, Coley has been very good for us overall but I think he's been less effective this year and if he did another year I think he'd be even less effective again. I personally think he should retire and with the progress that Mossop and Prescott have made I really don't think he'd be missed. That's assuming Fielden gets fully fit again.

Re: Rumours and signings v7 : Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:14 pm  

WARRIORCRAIG wrote:

Why would Mellor need a break from the 1st team, dont understand that all. The issue is if he's good enough to be our starting 6. As this year has shown, a settled half back partnership is a must, moving players in and out of positions is too disruptive.

Either Mellors good enough to be a stand off in a team that wants to challenge for trophies, or he isnt, in which case we either offer Deacon another year (has he got another year at the top in him? been excellent again this season but maybe 2012 would be a season too far?) or we look to recruit someone in (who though?)

Every team runs at Deacon. He's good with the ball in hand, but defensively he's a huge weaklink. That's only going to get worse.

As for Mellor - I'd hand him the job and let him sink or swim. He's at the age now where he's either going to make it at Wigan, or we move on. Time to find out.

Re: Rumours and signings v7 : Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:13 pm  

The game these days suggests we need five experienced props.
Fielden has only played one game this year and Prescott is still struggling with the hamstring injury. Mossop has stepped up to prop and has been excellent.
Last Saturday showed what a shrewed signing Cross was. Nothing spectacular just honest hard work and graft putting in some good runs and hard tackles.
His physical presence is enough to make the opposition take notice.
Without Cross we would have gone into the game with three props. Would we have won? Don't know!
The last games we came unstuck at, Catalans and Cas both away we went with three props. The game these days you have to go with four props in the 17.
I'd bring a quality prop in and try Crosby and O'Carroll in games where the first line props may be rested.
Mellor should get the 7 starting slot as he will be surrounded by experienced players like Lockers, Finch, Hock, Hansen, Joel and Carmont. Charnley to right centre and Roberts to right wing.

Re: Rumours and signings v7 : Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:26 pm  

Without Cross we'd have played Prescott.

I don't think you can go into a season having more than 5 props who you would expect to get regular first team appearances. O'Carroll should be being a regular in the first, otherwise he should be released. He has to be considered as a first team prop now or we may as well ship him out to Wakey/Salford/Widnes

Re: Rumours and signings v7 : Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:06 pm  

inside_man wrote:

As for a HB, I'd like to see a british player coming in, whether that will be Mellor, I don't know, but with Finch OOC next season, and Tommy looking like he will end up in the NRL sooner of later, I think we should be looking at a young british HB. The problem there though, is that there doesn't seem to be many coming through!

Tommy is our first-choice hooker now, not a half-back, and that's where he needs to stay IMO. If he wants to go Down Under after his contract runs out at the end of next year that's his decision but we would need to start looking at whether the likes of Logan Tomkins and Liam Carberry are good enough to make the step up from youth level to Super League. Mickey Mac would fill Tommy's shoes well enough (in spite of what some say about him on here) but asking him to do 80 minutes every week is too much

Re: Rumours and signings v7 : Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:16 pm  

cadoo wrote:

With regards to Joe Mellor - you can't expect a 20 year old lad with barely any Super League experience to play stand off for an entire season, week in week out for the current Super League champions. That's too much pressure - I don't care how talented or how much potential you might have. All the best halfbacks have been spelled. Having him go on duel registration for a year helps. Rotate him with Paul Deacon. Give him the stand off role and see how he does. If he struggles Paul Deacon can fill in. Mike Gregory didn't want to give Luke Robinson the 7 shirt for the entire season because he thought it would be too much pressure on the lad - despite how highly he rated him. I don't think it would disrupt the side. We stick to our structures and they work. Anyone can come in and not look out of place. It's the best way of introducing Joe Mellor to SL rugby as a first team player IMO.

Agreed. It looks as though our first-choice backline will be the same going into next season (unles we sign a centre and move Joel to SR), which would be the perfect place for Joe Mellor to come in should we decide to go that way. It's far easier as a youngster to come into a settled, experienced side with proven SL standard players than to come into a struggling team and be expected to run everything and be a leader from the off. Mellor can let the likes of Finch, Tommy and Sam do the organising and while he can focus on fitting into the offensive systems we use without having to worry about his team-mates

Re: Rumours and signings v7 : Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:48 pm  

Benji Marshall would be awesome

Re: Rumours and signings v7 : Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:13 pm  

cadoo wrote:

I'm in the camp of not giving up on Amos Roberts. He's played the last few months carrying an injury in the U20's. That has to be utterly demoralising. However he has been given the all clear now and scored a hat-trick in his last outing I believe. Amos Roberts is an outstanding RL player. One of the most naturally talented players we have at the club. He was devastating in 2010 and was smashing the try scoring charts, clean break charts, tackle busts etc etc shoe-in for MOS and all the other accolades you can think of. Now he's fit again I'm willing to give him time. He still has a year of his contract left. A few games in the first team to rotate the squad (rest Sam?) and let's see how he does.

With regards to Joe Mellor - you can't expect a 20 year old lad with barely any Super League experience to play stand off for an entire season, week in week out for the current Super League champions. That's too much pressure - I don't care how talented or how much potential you might have. All the best halfbacks have been spelled. Having him go on duel registration for a year helps. Rotate him with Paul Deacon. Give him the stand off role and see how he does. If he struggles Paul Deacon can fill in. Mike Gregory didn't want to give Luke Robinson the 7 shirt for the entire season because he thought it would be too much pressure on the lad - despite how highly he rated him. I don't think it would disrupt the side. We stick to our structures and they work. Anyone can come in and not look out of place. It's the best way of introducing Joe Mellor to SL rugby as a first team player IMO.

It goes without saying for me that prop is the priority. Andy Coley needs replacing. Five senior props is a must. Six is ideal, but five senior props with O'carroll and Crosby will do.

Fully agree with this, especially the Amos Roberts bit. I would love to see him firing on all cylinders for us again. Charnley in centre, Roberts on the wing sounds good to me.

You made a post earlier re-Joel Tomkins in at centre which IMHO I couldn't disagree more. For me his defence there is suspect, causing Charnleys to be suspect, he throws stupid balls out (the certain try in the SF one example) and generally looks out of place. He's wasted at centre and needs to be back in the back-row to replace Hoffman.

Should Roberts not be given another chance, I'd like to see a new centre signed along with a new prop. Keeping Joel at centre is simply not an option IMO.

Re: Rumours and signings v7 : Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:13 pm  

[Gareth] wrote:

Benji Marshall would be awesome

Awesome but sadly unrealistic