Re: Plea to Lam : Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:27 am  

Azul wrote:

This.
In a salary cap sport, ‘squad’ players are invaluable. There are for worse players in that squad than Isa in terms of what they offer overall to the cause, over a season.
I’d even be tempted to suggest that with Farrell’s injury record over the last 5 or so seasons, be is better value for money than Faz.

But sorry, he’s not from Wigan is he.

This...... But to be fair, it's pointless putting up a balanced on view here. Watch out for spit dummies hitting you

Re: Plea to Lam : Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:44 am  

Azul wrote:

This.
In a salary cap sport, ‘squad’ players are invaluable. There are for worse players in that squad than Isa in terms of what they offer overall to the cause, over a season.
I’d even be tempted to suggest that with Farrell’s injury record over the last 5 or so seasons, be is better value for money than Faz.

But sorry, he’s not from Wigan is he.

Tough to judge on value for money terms but we miss Faz immensely IMO. His injury record in the main hasn’t been too bad over his career and looking at his last five full seasons he averaged about 4 games a year less then Isa over the same period. I guess Isa will be a good bit lower in salary terms then Faz, so the value for money based on more games is very good but Farrell is comfortably the better player.

I don’t know why there’s a debate about Isa though tbh and agree with you that he’s a valuable squad player. If the club were to have a clear out (which is unlikely and difficult to do when people have contracts) then Isa wouldn’t be anywhere near my list of players to let go. I agree with some names banded about above, such as Tautai, Clubb, Navarette, Shorrocks, Ganson, Field, Forsyth etc who ultimately aren’t bringing enough to the table in varying ways. Some aren’t good enough, Clubb looks well past his best and others haven’t kicked on. The likes of Sarginson and Isa bring plenty to the squad over a long and tough season.

Re: Plea to Lam : Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:20 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Tough to judge on value for money terms but we miss Faz immensely IMO. His injury record in the main hasn’t been too bad over his career and looking at his last five full seasons he averaged about 4 games a year less then Isa over the same period. I guess Isa will be a good bit lower in salary terms then Faz, so the value for money based on more games is very good but Farrell is comfortably the better player.

I don’t know why there’s a debate about Isa though tbh and agree with you that he’s a valuable squad player. If the club were to have a clear out (which is unlikely and difficult to do when people have contracts) then Isa wouldn’t be anywhere near my list of players to let go. I agree with some names banded about above, such as Tautai, Clubb, Navarette, Shorrocks, Ganson, Field, Forsyth etc who ultimately aren’t bringing enough to the table in varying ways. Some aren’t good enough, Clubb looks well past his best and others haven’t kicked on. The likes of Sarginson and Isa bring plenty to the squad over a long and tough season.

When Azul used Farrell as an example I cringed - Not because I disagree with either side of that argument but he's the 1 player that has had injuries over the last couple of Years (Bicep - Rib - Now Pec) that have kept him out once per year in each of the last 3 years) that aren't linked to each other, but when he has played he contributes massively and more often than not for 80mins.
So although he may have missed games, they're not linked injuries and I wouldn't have concerns if he came back in that he contributes in terms of quality & Quantity

I think with Greenwood/Farrell & Isa we have a good balance in terms of quality/Quantity - As if a Farrell or a Greenwood get injured Isa is that durable he provides the cover
We also need another back rower who can do the same - Wells was meant to be that guy, it hasn't happened yet, Paisley is next cab on the rank but although a couple of promising appearances he hasn't kicked on - bit I suspect he has a bit more time to do so - Smithies has come in and done ok - But Easter Monday looked Flogged!!!!).
We need to make decisions on the likes of Wells - Is he going to be that 60min player, 30 games a season for us over the next 5/6 years and if not we move on - Bring someone else in until the other 2 are ready.
If he is, then we may have to make difficult choices about other players

Similar Forsyth
If he doesn't figure now, then why keep him? If Hankison is going to be our back up 3/4 Qtr then move Forsyth on (Some promising signs with Hanky at 2nd row on Monday BTW).

13 players are on the park 80 mins each week - That's just over 1k mins of rugby per week.
We have 32-35 games to navigate which is around 35kmins of rugby.

We have to get enough Quality into this as possible, but the quality have to play minutes also.

Re: Plea to Lam : Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:24 pm  

For people to get on at Isa I thinks wrong, massively wrong. He’s not going to be one of the big earners at the club, I’d hazard a guess at him not being in the top 10 earners but we get value for money, especially in terms of effort. Isa is a utility player and a good one at that. The guy would run through brick walls for the shirt and play any position and not raise a fuss, he’s tough as old boots too, if he was carrying a knock he’d put his body on the line to make a tackle. I like the guy. A superstar he is not but he’s a very valuable member of the squad and 1 I’d like to keep.

Re: Plea to Lam : Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:59 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

When Azul used Farrell as an example I cringed - Not because I disagree with either side of that argument but he's the 1 player that has had injuries over the last couple of Years (Bicep - Rib - Now Pec) that have kept him out once per year in each of the last 3 years) that aren't linked to each other, but when he has played he contributes massively and more often than not for 80mins.
So although he may have missed games, they're not linked injuries and I wouldn't have concerns if he came back in that he contributes in terms of quality & Quantity

I think with Greenwood/Farrell & Isa we have a good balance in terms of quality/Quantity - As if a Farrell or a Greenwood get injured Isa is that durable he provides the cover
We also need another back rower who can do the same - Wells was meant to be that guy, it hasn't happened yet, Paisley is next cab on the rank but although a couple of promising appearances he hasn't kicked on - bit I suspect he has a bit more time to do so - Smithies has come in and done ok - But Easter Monday looked Flogged!!!!).
We need to make decisions on the likes of Wells - Is he going to be that 60min player, 30 games a season for us over the next 5/6 years and if not we move on - Bring someone else in until the other 2 are ready.
If he is, then we may have to make difficult choices about other players

Similar Forsyth
If he doesn't figure now, then why keep him? If Hankison is going to be our back up 3/4 Qtr then move Forsyth on (Some promising signs with Hanky at 2nd row on Monday BTW).

13 players are on the park 80 mins each week - That's just over 1k mins of rugby per week.
We have 32-35 games to navigate which is around 35kmins of rugby.

We have to get enough Quality into this as possible, but the quality have to play minutes also.

I think we need to make a tough call on Lockers also that may be for the good of the side overall. He’s a legend of the club but it’s so difficult to have one of your main men in and out the side on a regular basis and I think we’ve struggled for consistency due to that in and around the middle. If he is to stay on next year then I wouldn’t mind Lam continuing to take the recent approach of having him on the bench to use as and when. If we could get one more back rower in or a good mobile middle man to play that 13 position then that can help build a bit more consistency. The situation with Hamlin hasn’t helped that score as he was developing nicely and his loss has certainly weakened us (even given his one shocking game in every 5 or 6).

As for Isa he can fit in around that. He’s valuable for the squad and I have no issue with him as first reserve in pretty much any position in the pack bar the hooking role. I thought it was a bit harsh of Joe Mills and Bilko to lump him in with guys like Tautai, Bullock, Flower etc on the game highlights I watched earlier, saying how it was really poor that they were taking to tackle 4 or 5 to get back in the attacking line on our exit sets. Guys like Flower, Bullock, Tautai etc are getting good spells off the field so fair enough but Isa gets drilled in to the ground. His discipline yesterday was poor and didn’t help him by making him keep having to retreat 30/40m on a regular basis but we’ve got some really poor defenders around that middle area of the field at the minute, which is putting us in scramble mode on a regular basis.

Re: Plea to Lam : Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:16 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I think we need to make a tough call on Lockers also that may be for the good of the side overall. He’s a legend of the club but it’s so difficult to have one of your main men in and out the side on a regular basis and I think we’ve struggled for consistency due to that in and around the middle. If he is to stay on next year then I wouldn’t mind Lam continuing to take the recent approach of having him on the bench to use as and when. If we could get one more back rower in or a good mobile middle man to play that 13 position then that can help build a bit more consistency. The situation with Hamlin hasn’t helped that score as he was developing nicely and his loss has certainly weakened us (even given his one shocking game in every 5 or 6).

As for Isa he can fit in around that. He’s valuable for the squad and I have no issue with him as first reserve in pretty much any position in the pack bar the hooking role. I thought it was a bit harsh of Joe Mills and Bilko to lump him in with guys like Tautai, Bullock, Flower etc on the game highlights I watched earlier, saying how it was really poor that they were taking to tackle 4 or 5 to get back in the attacking line on our exit sets. Guys like Flower, Bullock, Tautai etc are getting good spells off the field so fair enough but Isa gets drilled in to the ground. His discipline yesterday was poor and didn’t help him by making him keep having to retreat 30/40m on a regular basis but we’ve got some really poor defenders around that middle area of the field at the minute, which is putting us in scramble mode on a regular basis.

Absolutely on all points.
3 of Salford tries that came down the middle came the tackle after Isa had made a tackle and they targeted Smithies/partington whi looked absolutely blown out at the back of him and they targeted that.

Absolutely swear that I'm not sure I've seen a tireder bloke than Willie isa walking off on Monday
And, he was the only player to go to the far end of the fans and sign autographs and have pictures taken (not that has anything to do with what were talking about).
He was knackered and still put that extra in.
Tommy's efforts have been incredible last 3/4 weeks, and we can talk about quality all day long, but these types of guys lead the way week in week out.

Re: Plea to Lam : Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:23 pm  

They walked through tautai for 3 tries...again, he must have a bad back as he cant bend it to tackle

Re: Plea to Lam : Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:57 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Absolutely on all points.
3 of Salford tries that came down the middle came the tackle after Isa had made a tackle and they targeted Smithies/partington whi looked absolutely blown out at the back of him and they targeted that.

Absolutely swear that I'm not sure I've seen a tireder bloke than Willie isa walking off on Monday
And, he was the only player to go to the far end of the fans and sign autographs and have pictures taken (not that has anything to do with what were talking about).
He was knackered and still put that extra in.
Tommy's efforts have been incredible last 3/4 weeks, and we can talk about quality all day long, but these types of guys lead the way week in week out.

Tommy looks easily capable of going around again and at the minute if I had to choose one of him or Lockers to play on next year and lead the side, I’d be inclined to go with Tommy.

Re: Plea to Lam : Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:02 pm  

Pieman wrote:

They walked through tautai for 3 tries...again, he must have a bad back as he cant bend it to tackle

Tautai has improved in attack but has somehow gone even worse in defence (probably due to the effort in attack). I’ve never seen a player worse defensively around the middle. I keep saying it but he’s always in scramble mode, even when the side is not. It is a challenge for him to just get back in the line and out again to try and make a tackle. His discipline is diabolical because of that because he’s always a split second behind.

I’m not sure I could ever select him again after those two Easter games if I were coach.

Re: Plea to Lam : Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:30 pm  

We all know what happened to Samson when he cut his hair, maybe he should grow it back