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 Post subject: Negativity
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:03 am 
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Just wondering why there is still so much negativity on here and amongst our fans?

Ok yesterday was a scrappy performance but still served up some fairly special moments and at the end of the day we are currently top of the league with second best points difference.

I’m not saying all is perfect but when you consider -

We have 2 new players in the spine of the team who still won’t fully have clicked with those around them.

Our squad is getting rotated with a great mix of both youth and experience all getting game time.

We are winning ugly when we need to.

The style of rugby has certainly improved in regards entertainment.

It’s a long season and you don’t win trophies in Feb/March and we look more suited to the drier tracks.

I come on here and read some posts and I wonder what people are expecting?!

Has the 80’s and 90’s success ruined fans expectations for a generation?

On the face of things, we are having a great start to the season with I think plenty more to come.

Personally I just don’t understand why there is so much negativity.

I appreciate there are issues however not to warrant the level of negativity that seems to be floating around the club from a section of some fans.






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 Post subject: Re: Negativity
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:13 am 
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It's because we're not fully convinced by Lam.

I started the season with a very negative outlook, but have been getting more positive as we've been playing better. Then Lam rotates our front row and we look bad against a bad team at home.






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 Post subject: Re: Negativity
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:26 am 
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I’ve just posted on another thread about how I’ll quote gladly throw positives around when they’re there to be given but equally I won’t hold back on the negatives which are clear and consistently still clear too.

The season has gone well so far, one loss and 11 tries conceded is a great start so credit where it’s due absolutely. But I can’t help but feel that the starting props and 7 made us weaker yesterday, something which was pointed out too before the game even kicked off. If we as fans can see the obvious; why can’t Lam?

This rotating forwards waffle is just ridiculous too. Are we really rotating? IMO no; Oli and Bryne have played in every game, Havard all but one, Clubb (up until yesterday) all games. Bullock and Clarke have played twice putting in good performances too. Rotation? Come off it. There’s something else going on there. FWIW I’m not complaining about any of the younger lads playing - they fully deserve their selection, but so does Bullock.

Smith should be starting half with Tommy back up 9. His presence on the field makes a huge difference compared to when Tommy is on. We look stronger, more fluent, more threatening and more direct. When Tommy is there we look the opposite. I feel there is an air of sentiment going on there as opposed to the team first.

We have played well (in the main), that is utterly undeniable. French, Hastings and Powell have been superb, long may that continue. We do play rugby better than we did under Wane too, we have freedom to play what we see rather than play the set structure/play. It’s exciting to watch and creates tries like Hastings’ wonder try after French’s break.

There’s pros and cons to Lam but I wasn’t convinced at all by Lam last season and I’m still not now, though admittedly the better we play (win or lose) the more I will be. At present I wouldn’t be sad to see him leave at the end of the season as I don’t think he will lead us to silverware but I’m always open for that to change.

I hope I don’t come across as negative, it’s not what I’m going for. I’m trying to stay level headed rather than overly positive or negative.






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 Post subject: Re: Negativity
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:29 am 
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It's weird but, all along, I had a feeling that this might prove a banana skin game for us.

I'll never know why but, in recent years, we rarely seem to cut loose in these 'lesser' fixtures the way others do. Saints are out of sorts at present, but ordinarily they'd put 50 points on a team like Hull KR at home. In contrast, we always seem to make heavy weather of it.

However, we still won reasonably comfortably despite not functioning in high gear, so there are no complaints there.

We've got another possible banana skin on the horizon in Salford away. Now, folk may laugh at that, but Salford will fancy it after the way they demolished us last year, plus the return of Hastings will add spice. I'd be surprised if Salford didn't have a real go at us, so we can't afford any complacency.

I assume that's why we've rotated the front row, irritating though it was given how successful it was the week before.

It could simply be that Lammy is responding realistically to a tight couple of weeks where there is a degree of uncertainty. His comments that 'it was ugly but I'll take the win' seem to back that up.

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 Post subject: Re: Negativity
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:22 pm 
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It was the nature of yesterday's performance, just seemed a massive step back against let's be honest, an almost HKR reserve team who if they hadn't bombed 3 guilt edged chances in the second half could've really embarrassed us.
We just seemed flat from minute one and barely picked up, for me Havard's performance was the only thing to get positive about.
I posted on one of the FB pages that at the end of the game it felt liked we'd lost and I've got a bucket full of abuse about it but I stand by it.
As 100% Warrior said, leaving our best metre maker out Bullock is just mind boggling and continuing to pick Leuluai at half back is just killing us, if he's sharing the 9 role with Powell for the rest of the season then fine but he shouldn't be anywhere near the HB role.
I thought before the season started we were a half back short and I'd be loathe to put the pressure of being a starting half on Smith's shoulders but he's by a mile our best option at the moment.
There's a bloody good team in that squad somewhere and Lam needs to find it, for me next week
French
Manfredi
Hardaker
Hankinson
Marshall
Hastings
Smith
Partington
Powell
Burgess
Isa
Farrell
Smithies

Bullock
Byrne
Havard
A.N. Other (either Leuluai or another prop)

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 Post subject: Re: Negativity
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:23 pm 
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It's the nature of these forums that they tend to be more negative than positive. I'm not entirely sure why. There are always far more posts after a poor display than after a good one. Even when we have a good one some people will look for negatives. The "we're not missing Lockers" posts after the Huddersfield game was a prime example. I haven't seen the corresponding "we missed Lockers" ones after yesterday's performance when it's clear as day we did. I guess that's the nature of people.

On to the game itself. I'm not sure you can read too much into it. It was one of those games that never got started. They happen sometimes. The ref's influence on the flow of the game was far too great and, coupled with some misguided (in my opinion) selections we could not get any sort of roll on. That said, we were still comfortable winners and never really looked like losing so, if you want a positive to take from the game, I guess it would be that one.

I mentioned in another thread that I didn't feel the Partington/Byrne starting partnership was the one to get us over our slow starts and I saw nothing yesterday to change my mind. I also agree that Smith should have been on much earlier than he was. Both easy fixes so let's hope Lam does just that.

The season so far has been enjoyable. We're 5 from 6, 2 points clear at the top of the table with plenty of improvement in us. Hands up who would have taken that at the start of the season.

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 Post subject: Re: Negativity
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:25 pm 
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100% Warrior wrote:I’ve just posted on another thread about how I’ll quote gladly throw positives around when they’re there to be given but equally I won’t hold back on the negatives which are clear and consistently still clear too.

The season has gone well so far, one loss and 11 tries conceded is a great start so credit where it’s due absolutely. But I can’t help but feel that the starting props and 7 made us weaker yesterday, something which was pointed out too before the game even kicked off. If we as fans can see the obvious; why can’t Lam?

This rotating forwards waffle is just ridiculous too. Are we really rotating? IMO no; Oli and Bryne have played in every game, Havard all but one, Clubb (up until yesterday) all games. Bullock and Clarke have played twice putting in good performances too. Rotation? Come off it. There’s something else going on there. FWIW I’m not complaining about any of the younger lads playing - they fully deserve their selection, but so does Bullock.

Smith should be starting half with Tommy back up 9. His presence on the field makes a huge difference compared to when Tommy is on. We look stronger, more fluent, more threatening and more direct. When Tommy is there we look the opposite. I feel there is an air of sentiment going on there as opposed to the team first.

We have played well (in the main), that is utterly undeniable. French, Hastings and Powell have been superb, long may that continue. We do play rugby better than we did under Wane too, we have freedom to play what we see rather than play the set structure/play. It’s exciting to watch and creates tries like Hastings’ wonder try after French’s break.

There’s pros and cons to Lam but I wasn’t convinced at all by Lam last season and I’m still not now, though admittedly the better we play (win or lose) the more I will be. At present I wouldn’t be sad to see him leave at the end of the season as I don’t think he will lead us to silverware but I’m always open for that to change.

I hope I don’t come across as negative, it’s not what I’m going for. I’m trying to stay level headed rather than overly positive or negative.


Partington has played all six, Clubb and Byrne have played five, Havard, Burgess and Bullock have played three, Clark has played two and Flower one.






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 Post subject: Re: Negativity
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:39 pm 
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Personally, I still see the same issues as last season and that is a young pack that are all being asked to play together. Burgess and Clark were signed to improve that and so far, one looks a shadow of the player we thought we were buying and the other can't get a game.

I think we lose to Warrington 13 v 13. We lost to Cas and last weeks win over Hudds was a game in which we struggled until the sin bin. We struggled against Toronto for the most part and the same again yesterday. Our best display so far was against Hull in a game I thought we would lose.

We are now winning those tight games as Lam said which last season we probably wouldn't have done, but when the big games come around we can't afford to have a pack that is struggling to get a footing in the game. We can't expect Havard, Byrne, Partington and Smithies to carry the pack all season and Hastings and French can't produce magic every week

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 Post subject: Re: Negativity
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:05 pm 
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Nothing is won at the start of March. As long as we keep picking up wins and we peak in July-September then I'll be happy.

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 Post subject: Re: Negativity
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:09 pm 
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Phuzzy wrote:On to the game itself. I'm not sure you can read too much into it. It was one of those games that never got started. They happen sometimes. The ref's influence on the flow of the game was far too great and, coupled with some misguided (in my opinion) selections we could not get any sort of roll on. That said, we were still comfortable winners and never really looked like losing so, if you want a positive to take from the game, I guess it would be that one.


I was going to say pretty much the same thing. I thought the ref was very poor and some of the penalties were not fathomable. Particularly the one where one of their players without the ball set off and just ran into a couple of our players and he blew up. The 10m was often 5m particularly when the ball was turned over.

Quote:I mentioned in another thread that I didn't feel the Partington/Byrne starting partnership was the one to get us over our slow starts and I saw nothing yesterday to change my mind. I also agree that Smith should have been on much earlier than he was. Both easy fixes so let's hope Lam does just that.


I'd agree about Smith coming on earlier as well. I lost my temper when TL kicked the ball out in the full. It was the last straw on what was a very poor performance from him.

Lam said after the match sometimes you need to win ugly and last season this is the kind of game we may have lost. I don't disagree but now I am looking to see what his selection will be for Friday v Salford. If at least one of Bullock and Clark don't figure with a short five day turnaround I think any notion of Lam rotating the squad can be put to bed. This is exactly when rotation is the right thing to do.

I don't think any of these observations are negative. As we are winning they are nice problems to be discussing on a forum which is what they are for.






Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18

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