Re: 98 season : Tue May 12, 2020 9:40 am  

Egg Chasing wrote:

The ground would now belong to Wigan Athletic though

Not necessarily
Just because that's how it played out at the JJB/DW doesn't mean that's how it would have played out at Central park?

Re: 98 season : Tue May 12, 2020 9:43 am  

MR FRISK wrote:

Wigan would still be playing at CP if the board would have taken the offer Whelan gave to them

No they wouldn't. Whelan offered around £6 million and he knew the value was double that, which is what Robinson got. He would have sold it and still moved to Robin Park, he knew what the cost of upgrading Central Park would be from the cost of building the Whitbread/Boston stand which went way over budget. Whelans modus operandi was always buy low sell high.
There were no grants for upgrading stadia but a new build was different.

Re: 98 season : Tue May 12, 2020 10:20 am  

Jukesays wrote:

Not necessarily
Just because that's how it played out at the JJB/DW doesn't mean that's how it would have played out at Central park?

True, but there's a bloody good chance. One thing that probably would have occured is the moving of games to other venues (although the pitch would probably have been in better nick)

Re: 98 season : Tue May 12, 2020 10:41 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

No they wouldn't. Whelan offered around £6 million and he knew the value was double that, which is what Robinson got. He would have sold it and still moved to Robin Park, he knew what the cost of upgrading Central Park would be from the cost of building the Whitbread/Boston stand which went way over budget. Whelans modus operandi was always buy low sell high.
There were no grants for upgrading stadia but a new build was different.

Correct and Whelan never had any intention of playing at Central Park as he knew that the Council wanted the club to be away from near the town centre and a move to Robin Park was always on the cards as it was promoted by himself at a meeting held at the Riverside Club in 1994.

Re: 98 season : Tue May 12, 2020 11:01 am  

Ruddy Duck wrote:

Correct and Whelan never had any intention of playing at Central Park as he knew that the Council wanted the club to be away from near the town centre and a move to Robin Park was always on the cards as it was promoted by himself at a meeting held at the Riverside Club in 1994.

That's your opinion - and one I wouldn't disagree with too much
However
We'll never know for certain will we?

And after the Shareholders vote and debenture stock Fiasco everything else was irrelevant.

Do you accept though that Monie would not have been back at the club if it weren't for Whelan?

Re: 98 season : Tue May 12, 2020 9:41 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

That's your opinion - and one I wouldn't disagree with too much
However
We'll never know for certain will we?

And after the Shareholders vote and debenture stock Fiasco everything else was irrelevant.

Do you accept though that Monie would not have been back at the club if it weren't for Whelan?

I thought it was Mike Nolan's idea to bring Monie back? He invited him to a meeting at his home near Haydock Park racecourse and offered him the job in late 97. Nolan stood down mid 98 over disagreements with Whelan regarding signings for 97 and idiot Peter Norbury the new chairman sacked Monie in 99 after about 8 games. It was also Norbury that resulted in Robbie McCormack leaving after one year. He wanted to stay but Norbury offered him much less money which he refused and Monie had a bust up with Norbury over it resulting in Norbury finally agreeing to an improved offer but when Monie put it to McCormack, he refused saying he felt insulted.

When Monie first came in at the end of the 97 season, he said the club was in a right mess and unrecognisable from the club he left a few years earlier. I imagine Eric Hughes played a huge part in the drop in standards. What on Earth was we thinking giving him the head coaches job?

Re: 98 season : Tue May 12, 2020 10:17 pm  

The_Enforcer wrote:

I thought it was Mike Nolan's idea to bring Monie back? He invited him to a meeting at his home near Haydock Park racecourse and offered him the job in late 97. Nolan stood down mid 98 over disagreements with Whelan regarding signings for 97 and idiot Peter Norbury the new chairman sacked Monie in 99 after about 8 games. It was also Norbury that resulted in Robbie McCormack leaving after one year. He wanted to stay but Norbury offered him much less money which he refused and Monie had a bust up with Norbury over it resulting in Norbury finally agreeing to an improved offer but when Monie put it to McCormack, he refused saying he felt insulted.

When Monie first came in at the end of the 97 season, he said the club was in a right mess and unrecognisable from the club he left a few years earlier. I imagine Eric Hughes played a huge part in the drop in standards. What on Earth was we thinking giving him the head coaches job?

When he had those conversations who was the owner?
We all know that Whelan was ultimately in charge and although Mo for example came back late 99 until 2007 it was Whelan who as the owner was ultimately in charge.

Monie only came back because of Whelan, he would never have come back under Robinson. That's the point I was making

You cant blame Norbury as Whelans stooge for sacking Monie, when it was another one of Whelans stooges that got him to come in the first place.

As for the club being a complete shambles, he was right, but dont blame Eric Hughes. He was only part of the issue. Who appointed him? Who sacked West at the wrong time? Who employed Dorohay? Who continued to spend money on many numerous signings that, in which ever way you look at it from 94/95 ish onwards we didnt have the money to actually buy.
And that's before I go into the many other issues financially and legally we found ourselves in 96/97 that ultimately led to Whelans takeover.

I'm no Whelan fan by a long way, and Ian Leneghan beats them both hands down. But Robinson made some terrible decisions and was a massive part of the reason the club was in a shambles

Re: 98 season : Wed May 13, 2020 8:21 am  

Jukesays wrote:

That's your opinion - and one I wouldn't disagree with too much
However
We'll never know for certain will we?

And after the Shareholders vote and debenture stock Fiasco everything else was irrelevant.

Do you accept though that Monie would not have been back at the club if it weren't for Whelan?

My comment about the Council wanting the club away from near the town centre was not a opinion, but a fact confirmed to me at the time by a leading Councillor.

As for John Monie, he was indeed made Coach by Whelan, but unlike the time he first came to the club, he did not get the same financial support from Whelan for better quality players that he had from the gang of four when they ran the club.

Never tightfisted though, where his beloved Latic's was concerned!

Re: 98 season : Wed May 13, 2020 1:24 pm  

Ruddy Duck wrote:

My comment about the Council wanting the club away from near the town centre was not a opinion, but a fact confirmed to me at the time by a leading Councillor.

As for John Monie, he was indeed made Coach by Whelan, but unlike the time he first came to the club, he did not get the same financial support from Whelan for better quality players that he had from the gang of four when they ran the club.

Never tightfisted though, where his beloved Latic's was concerned!

Why you changing the subject again?
I only said that originally that Monie wouldn't have been here if it wasn't for Whelan (I don't like him either)
But we can hardly criticise the Whelan's Stooge that sacked him when it was only because another one of Whelan's Stooges got him to come in the first place.

As for tight fisted, as much as I don't like him he inherited/purchased a Poop Storm from Robinson
He did invest in Moore/Bell/Betts/Maestrov etc.
We managed to keep it in place year 1 (98) but when those contracts kicked in that Robinson/Connolly (Not sure about Rads?) had signed with the ARL and we paid over the odds to get them back then we had to lose certain players.
Paul went (Although I do think he wanted to go anyway)
And the reinvestment in 99 wasn't "Great" although I don't think it was too bad (Florimo etc.)
And I'm pretty sure the investment in Newton/Peters/Renouf/Dallas/Johns/Lam/Furner etc. wasn't too bad? Plus the retention of Connolly/Farrell/Rads/Betts etc.

But at a time when the cap was really kicking in the top players took too much of the cap space and left little for the rest
This was where the cap was mismanaged over the next 4/5 years and led to 2005/6/7 debacle

Re: 98 season : Wed May 13, 2020 1:27 pm  

Neither Whelan nor Lindsay could manage the cap. They just expected to throw money about and bring back the glory days.

They weren't too far away with the number of finals we competed in TBH.