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Re: RD 8 | Wakefield Trinity (A) Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:54 pm  

User avatarjonh wrote:
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Cherry.Pie wrote:
We were definitely our own worst enemy in that game. When we got a decent lead we failed to capitalise on it because of some poor handling errors and some dumb last tackle plays (on the occasions when we actually managed to reach the end of a set). There wasn't much invention in our attack. A lot of what we did was one out drives. Whether that was a reaction to our errors and trying to keep it simple, or just not getting into the right field position to try anything, I'm not sure, but it was a fairly turgid and attritional affair.

I thought yet again Havard was our best prop. His carries, his tackles, his all round play. He's been outstanding so far this year. Compare that with Burgess, who was clearly our worst prop. Ineffective carrying the ball and sluggish in defence. Consider how much more Burgess is getting paid than Havard. 10 times more?

I can't be too critical of the positional changes as French was injured, and the change did lead to Hardaker setting up French for a try. I doubt we missed out on expansive attacking moves and thrilling play because of the switch.

While Hastings and Smith both made good contributions to set up tries the rest of their play wasn't quite so good. There's seems to be little understanding between the two. I'd be more critical of Hastings though as the more experienced player. He seems to go missing for long periods of games although he undoubtedly produces moments of outstanding play.

Bibby seems to be lacking in attack. It's been a tough year for him so I don't want to be too critical, and perhaps he'll just be a slow starter who comes good next season but we need to deal with this season first and right now it looks like neither Bibby nor Hankinson pose a credible attacking threat. He took his try well, but ultimately if your best moment of the season is driving very hard towards the line it's not going to make a great highlight reel.

Our pack is hard working but not exactly exciting or threatening. Farrell works harder than anyone but his attacking best comes from a half being on the same page and putting him through gaps. Isa offers nothing threatening on the other side. Most of our props offer hard work but not exactly the most effective of carries. Bullock is probably best in that department. Havard isn't too bad and will hopefully show more of what he's capable of in time. Byrne, Clark, Flower, Partington, Clubb - there's not really a dangerous runner or crafty offloader among them. The less said about what Burgess offers the better. I'm not saying our pack is poor - but I imagine a lot of teams find our play quite predictable.


I’m really confused by the criticism of Bibby.

Thought whilst not spectacular he was as good as any back expect for Zak.

Our entire back line was playing far too flat but I thought he linked well with Hastings and he scored a great try.

Not saying he is Gene Miles but don’t think he deserves stick on today’s performance.
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Re: RD 8 | Wakefield Trinity (A) Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:40 am  

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Thought it was Bibby’s best game so far personally. He’s got things to work on in defence but he was a threat wiry the ball and his work rate was good.
Re: RD 8 | Wakefield Trinity (A) Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:34 am  

Ruddy Duck wrote:
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It does not matter who is the Coach, the simple truth is that we have too many players now past their best and also have not made with the exception of French, Hardacre and Hastings signed better class players from both within our own game and down under to blend with the good young players we get from the Academy.

Suggest that supporters need to look at squads of Wigan at the time Maguire was the Coach and then look at how the squads have decline in quality in recent seasons and now no longer have same class players like Carmont, Deacon, Finch, Gleeson, Hoffman, Lima, Richards, Riddell, Roberts, Sam Tomkins etc to compliment the younger home produced players.

Both Holbrook and now Wolfe have and are looking better Coaches because Saints under McManus and his board have not only produced their own good young Academy players, but have bought better from outside both from within our own country and from down under.

Makes you wonder if that is the reason Wane resigned!
Re: RD 8 | Wakefield Trinity (A) Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:34 am  

User avatarNickyKiss wrote:
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I love a good stat and there were some impressive ones and some less so yesterday from various players.

Faz ran 196 metres and made 39 tackles

Havard made 48 tackles, took 17 carries and made 127 metres. The kid is so impressive.

Powell made 55 tackles

Byrne 36 tackles and 8 carries for 70 metres

Good ground from the wingers-152 metres for Marshall and 170m for Manfredi (well centre I guess).

Big George is Big Tony on more money-14 tackles, 6 carries and 43 metres. Hopefully he needs games and minutes and things will build over time. It will need to considering the chunk of cap going his way.
Re: RD 8 | Wakefield Trinity (A) Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:41 am  

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NickyKiss wrote:
I love a good stat and there were some impressive ones and some less so yesterday from various players.

Faz ran 196 metres and made 39 tackles

Havard made 48 tackles, took 17 carries and made 127 metres. The kid is so impressive.

Powell made 55 tackles

Byrne 36 tackles and 8 carries for 70 metres

Good ground from the wingers-152 metres for Marshall and 170m for Manfredi (well centre I guess).

Big George is Big Tony on more money-14 tackles, 6 carries and 43 metres. Hopefully he needs games and minutes and things will build over time. It will need to considering the chunk of cap going his way.


In fairness to Burgess he barely got any ball, certainly not any good ball. A few times he was offering himself as an option but the hooker and halves went the other way. He must have been on for 20 minutes at most - whether that was all he could manage before keeling over is another issue.

Bryne and Havard look terrific prospects - bit depressing to think we likely won't see their best years like most of our academy products.

Bullock was OK and Clark was enthusiastic at least.
Re: RD 8 | Wakefield Trinity (A) Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:58 am  

Cherry.Pie wrote:
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jonh wrote:
I’m really confused by the criticism of Bibby.

Thought whilst not spectacular he was as good as any back expect for Zak.

Our entire back line was playing far too flat but I thought he linked well with Hastings and he scored a great try.

Not saying he is Gene Miles but don’t think he deserves stick on today’s performance.


He didn't make anywhere near the same number of metres as our other outside backs except for French, who was injured. He fluffed a very good try scoring opportunity with a catch and pass that should be fairly straightforward for a centre who at 24 is entering his prime. And while his leg drive was impressive I wouldn't describe his try as 'great'. He's clearly strong, but that's an absolute howler from the defence.

It may be harsh though. He's had a slow start but it's basically the start of the season all over again, and I'm judging him based on his performances earlier in the year too. Hopefully it was a steady performance that he'll build on.
Re: RD 8 | Wakefield Trinity (A) Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:11 am  

User avatarjonh wrote:
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Cherry.Pie wrote:
He didn't make anywhere near the same number of metres as our other outside backs except for French, who was injured. He fluffed a very good try scoring opportunity with a catch and pass that should be fairly straightforward for a centre who at 24 is entering his prime. And while his leg drive was impressive I wouldn't describe his try as 'great'. He's clearly strong, but that's an absolute howler from the defence.

It may be harsh though. He's had a slow start but it's basically the start of the season all over again, and I'm judging him based on his performances earlier in the year too. Hopefully it was a steady performance that he'll build on.



I think both edges struggled to manage the overlaps we created because both sides were way too flat.

On quite a few occasions we had the overlap but put ourselves under too much pressure with the catch and pass as the centres were basically in the opposition line when trying to execute which killed a good few clear cut opportunities.
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Re: RD 8 | Wakefield Trinity (A) Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:13 am  

Cherry.Pie wrote:
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MadDogg wrote:
In fairness to Burgess he barely got any ball, certainly not any good ball. A few times he was offering himself as an option but the hooker and halves went the other way. He must have been on for 20 minutes at most - whether that was all he could manage before keeling over is another issue.

Bryne and Havard look terrific prospects - bit depressing to think we likely won't see their best years like most of our academy products.

Bullock was OK and Clark was enthusiastic at least.


I'm not sure 'not getting any ball' is much of an excuse for him. Would Saints go through a match without giving Walmsley any ball? Would Cas go 80 minutes without giving Watts plenty of carries? If he didn't make many carries, there's a reason for it. If the players deliberately didn't give him the ball then it's because he wasn't considered capable of making much of an impact, or he's terribly unfit for a forward of his reputation.
Re: RD 8 | Wakefield Trinity (A) Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:15 am  

User avatarNickyKiss wrote:
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MadDogg wrote:
In fairness to Burgess he barely got any ball, certainly not any good ball. A few times he was offering himself as an option but the hooker and halves went the other way. He must have been on for 20 minutes at most - whether that was all he could manage before keeling over is another issue.

Bryne and Havard look terrific prospects - bit depressing to think we likely won't see their best years like most of our academy products.

Bullock was OK and Clark was enthusiastic at least.


Must admit I did notice the ball evading him a time or two. He needs to up his workrate in both attack and defence and whilst I don’t have him as a lost cause yet, the signs are worrying. We’ve brought him in on big money to be our own Alex Walmsley but over the season he’s probably been out performed by 3 junior props, Joe Bullock and even Mitch Clark in his short spells and that’s just our lot. What we want/expect from him for the reputation and the money to what we’re getting is terrifying. Time yet though and fingers crossed he pulls through this rough start.
Re: RD 8 | Wakefield Trinity (A) Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:25 am  

Cbr1000rr wrote:
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Burgess is finished, he's got a chronic hip injury and is ridiculously unfit.

Its embarrassing that where paying him marquee money!
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