Re: Lam 1 year extension : Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:12 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

I think performance in the weekly rounds is something that, rightly or wrongly, gets overlooked. In many ways you make your own luck by being consistently good. Saints have proven that consistency, week to week, invariably returns a trophy.

Would that be the same Saints who finished in the top 2 every year from 07-10 and got zero Grand Final wins to show for it? Of course we want to win every game but the system we have means you have to be able to raise your game/not choke in those knockout games or you come out with nothing but a hubcap. We have seen Leeds do it in the past and win a lot of silverware, Wane's Wigan likewise. That's where I'm questioning Lam based on his record so far. What do the players say every year when they win the LLS? "This is nice but it means nothing unless we go and win the Grand Final."

Re: Lam 1 year extension : Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:47 am  

Grimmy wrote:

Would that be the same Saints who finished in the top 2 every year from 07-10 and got zero Grand Final wins to show for it? Of course we want to win every game but the system we have means you have to be able to raise your game/not choke in those knockout games or you come out with nothing but a hubcap. We have seen Leeds do it in the past and win a lot of silverware, Wane's Wigan likewise. That's where I'm questioning Lam based on his record so far. What do the players say every year when they win the LLS? "This is nice but it means nothing unless we go and win the Grand Final."

That Saints team won the CC in 2008, but outside of that - Is that side an anomaly? You could probably make a case for it. Us, Wire, Leeds and the current Saints side have all, at some point, had a period of consistency that's resulted in trophy wins.

There's more it it than just luck of the playoffs. If you're consistently a good team, then history proves (apart from one side) that you'll win a trophy or two.

Re: Lam 1 year extension : Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:57 am  

Egg Chasing wrote:

I used to feel like that under Wane, but it usually resulted in winning trophies.

It's a tough call really. Play like Cas in 2017 but win nothing, or accept a few lacklustre displays and take the big prize at the end?

It's a difficult one. I'd still argue that if you can be consistently good, over a period longer than one season (two min, possibly three) then you'll win a trophy. You can't be a flash in the pan like Cas or Hudds a few seasons before that.

The two seasons under Madge were the modern pinnacle imo. We had weekly consistency and one trophy each season. I could stomach the playoff defeat in his last season as, not only had I enjoyed the week to week rugby, 50% of the prizes + one hub cap went to us.

I'll say it again - if you're consistent week in and week out, then you won't be far off one of the two big prizes.

Re: Lam 1 year extension : Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:11 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

I used to feel like that under Wane, but it usually resulted in winning trophies.

It's a tough call really. Play like Cas in 2017 but win nothing, or accept a few lacklustre displays and take the big prize at the end?

This is the reason why I'm not happy with this announcement. Wane got us to do just enough to win, with the odd bad match through the regular season and win at the end. Lam is the same, but with no trophy.

Re: Lam 1 year extension : Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:13 pm  

Suzy Banyon wrote:

This is the reason why I'm not happy with this announcement. Wane got us to do just enough to win, with the odd bad match through the regular season and win at the end. Lam is the same, but with no trophy.

I do think given the issues this year and the signs at the end he deserves one more crack, but he should be judged at the end of the season on trophies won alone. Another semi/final loss won't be good enough I don't think.

Re: Lam 1 year extension : Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:42 pm  

Will we wipe the floor with the rest of the league next season? No. But who else is available apart from Lam is the question

Re: Lam 1 year extension : Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:56 pm  

Is it as simple as 'win nowt you're out' though?
Unless we are terrible from the start of the season right through to the end it doesn't give IL/KR much time to look for, approach and seal a deal with a solid replacement.

Say we perform well through the season, lose the cup final then get into the playoffs but lose the GF (costing Lam his new one year extension). Only gives us three months to secure a replacement, unless feelers are put out in advance? What's the chances of a decent replacement being available in such a short window of time as well?

Re: Lam 1 year extension : Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:05 pm  

So winning the league leaders shield is not rated as an achievement in Lenagan's eyes. Not sure if he rates the challenge cup, so Mr Lam, "we win the Grand Final, or on yer bike !" Nice....

Re: Lam 1 year extension : Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:18 pm  

Kennedy wrote:

So winning the league leaders shield is not rated as an achievement in Lenagan's eyes. Not sure if he rates the challenge cup, so Mr Lam, "we win the Grand Final, or on yer bike !" Nice....

He does rate the Challenge Cup, said on many times its a prestigious trophy that the club has a long history with. It also brings in a lot more revenue (under normal circumstances) than winning the GF.

Re: Lam 1 year extension : Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:43 pm  

MattyB wrote:

Is it as simple as 'win nowt you're out' though?
Unless we are terrible from the start of the season right through to the end it doesn't give IL/KR much time to look for, approach and seal a deal with a solid replacement.

Say we perform well through the season, lose the cup final then get into the playoffs but lose the GF (costing Lam his new one year extension). Only gives us three months to secure a replacement, unless feelers are put out in advance? What's the chances of a decent replacement being available in such a short window of time as well?

I think if we go out of the cup in a respectable performance against Saints/Wire/Leeds then he keeps his job but the application process begins at that point, he can apply too. That way we could have all the interviews done and dusted before the play offs, and make the decision straight after the season is done.

Having said that, I remember Noble announcing he was leaving straight after we went out of the play offs in 09. I don't know whether that was because IL made the decision before that point (thus knowing he was getting rid of a coach who may win the Grand Final), or whether they had an understanding that his contract wouldn't be renewed unless Wigan won the Grand Final.