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Re: The Prop Problem Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:21 pm  

Cherry.Pie wrote:
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I don't think there's any need to panic after that one game. Yes, Leigh dominated down the middle but our pack have only had about 20-30 minutes prior to get match fitness (and there was a 2 week break before this). Leigh had 2 pre-season friendlies. Sidlow had a good game but it was Leigh's outside backs causing us real problems down the middle. When we're pinned in our own 20 you don't really want props to be making every carry. That's where you want the outside backs who are quicker and more mobile to make ground. That's where we missed Manfredi, Gildart and Marshall as that's their bread and butter.

Once we're a few games in we'll be able to see which props are performing.
Re: The Prop Problem Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:58 pm  

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jonh wrote:
Probably not a good choice of words by me to be fair.

He clearly has the quality and the athletic ability/physical gifts to be a top prop.

I just think at the moment he lacks that aggressive side that both Partington and Byrne displayed last night to fight back against the Leigh pack.

My worry is that, that’s either in you or it isn’t and from what I’ve seen of him so far it isn’t in him.

Coley was a similar player physically and he lacked that bit of aggression until Madge came in, I’m hoping Havard can do the same.

Havard 129m from the bench

Bullock Singleton and Partington combined for 126m
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Re: The Prop Problem Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:27 pm  

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If there is that aggressive spark inside of Havard it could be the difference between him being very good and him going on to be a top level international. His numbers are staggering for such a young lad and he does it with no fuss whatsoever. He just seems such a quiet lad that he leaves you questioning if that edge could develop or not. He’s undoubtedly very young and not many come through snarling like Partington and Smithies did. It’s not a case of wanting him to go around hunting for trouble and he’s brilliant as he is but as and when the rough stuff crops up, I’ll certainly watch with interest to see if he’s got that in him.

He’s some player to be fair to the lad. He could be anything if he’s got that but of mongrel inside him.
Re: The Prop Problem Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:40 pm  

nathan_rugby wrote:
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Choc Ice wrote:
it was baffling, makes sense when powell did it late and no one was there but he kicked it straight to the winger. like they'd agreed to do it before the game and didn't change when leigh had it covered.

I think all our backs missing will have hindered go forward too. hanley is probably to young and small, i dont think field touched the ball until he got injured. wingers are important to get sets started and manfredi and marshall should help if they ever get fit,

Not taking too much from that game. disappointing we didn't open with much intensity but good to earn the win, hopefully we'll be better for it.

https://www.rugby-league.com/match_report/133703
Stats. Harvard the only non embarrassing metres, think he got more than partington, bullock and singleton combined.


Diabolical meters from Singleton, Partington and Bullock.
Re: The Prop Problem Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:52 pm  

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nathan_rugby wrote:
Diabolical meters from Singleton, Partington and Bullock.

Partington's metres per carry was better than Isa, Byrne, Shorrocks & Smithies. And was only slightly less than Bateman's.
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Re: The Prop Problem Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:42 pm  

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NickyKiss wrote:
If there is that aggressive spark inside of Havard it could be the difference between him being very good and him going on to be a top level international. His numbers are staggering for such a young lad and he does it with no fuss whatsoever. He just seems such a quiet lad that he leaves you questioning if that edge could develop or not. He’s undoubtedly very young and not many come through snarling like Partington and Smithies did. It’s not a case of wanting him to go around hunting for trouble and he’s brilliant as he is but as and when the rough stuff crops up, I’ll certainly watch with interest to see if he’s got that in him.

He’s some player to be fair to the lad. He could be anything if he’s got that but of mongrel inside him.

Is that maybe going to be a bit easier once he's a little older and more established? I know some players like Partington and Smithies did it from their debut but Havard might need to settle in before coming out of his shell.
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Re: The Prop Problem Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:50 pm  

DannyT wrote:
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Grimmy wrote:
Is that maybe going to be a bit easier once he's a little older and more established? I know some players like Partington and Smithies did it from their debut but Havard might need to settle in before coming out of his shell.


I’ll take Havard every day and on Sunday’s too over Partington and Smithies. Only Havard of those three will have a long career at the top. The other two are limited in every area. Smithies in particular needs to have a good year or he’ll just be another numbnuts in a team like Wakefield.
Re: The Prop Problem Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:10 pm  
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Gotta admit I'm a little confused on this one. Havard makes the most yards out of our pack, despite the fact he's only 20 and yet he's been labelled as a concern earlier in the thread?

If you look at the majority of the top props in the game, they are mostly level headed at the min. I can't remember the last time someone like Papalii, or Jason Taumalolo did anything other than make massive yards. That's what sets them apart imo, not the other stuff.

The so called 'mongrel' in players is a dying art, just look at the weekend headlines for Jared Waerea-Hargreaves for a perfect example.
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Re: The Prop Problem Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:21 pm  

User avatarNickyKiss wrote:
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sergeant pepper wrote:
Gotta admit I'm a little confused on this one. Havard makes the most yards out of our pack, despite the fact he's only 20 and yet he's been labelled as a concern earlier in the thread?

If you look at the majority of the top props in the game, they are mostly level headed at the min. I can't remember the last time someone like Papalii, or Jason Taumalolo did anything other than make massive yards. That's what sets them apart imo, not the other stuff.

The so called 'mongrel' in players is a dying art, just look at the weekend headlines for Jared Waerea-Hargreaves for a perfect example.


It’s far from a concern, he’s a brilliant player. It’s simply an observation that he’s yet to show if he does have that side or not and if he does then the sky is the limit. I get your points with JT and JP but they’re hugely aggressive in defence and attack with the force they put in to their running and tackling. I’m not saying Havard should be laying cheap shots on people or starting scraps, I’m simply wondering if he’s got that instinct inside him to absolutely wallop somebody in defence and get a real enjoyment out of it, the way that you can sense somebody like Partington does. If he has that side then wow, we’ve got something very special indeed.
Re: The Prop Problem Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:35 pm  

User avatarjonh wrote:
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sergeant pepper wrote:
Gotta admit I'm a little confused on this one. Havard makes the most yards out of our pack, despite the fact he's only 20 and yet he's been labelled as a concern earlier in the thread?

If you look at the majority of the top props in the game, they are mostly level headed at the min. I can't remember the last time someone like Papalii, or Jason Taumalolo did anything other than make massive yards. That's what sets them apart imo, not the other stuff.

The so called 'mongrel' in players is a dying art, just look at the weekend headlines for Jared Waerea-Hargreaves for a perfect example.


Harvard makes big meters but at the moment and he is a wonderful prospect but to take his game to the next level he needs to improve his contact in defence as he isn’t particularly hurtful in and also his play the ball isn’t very quick.

He makes great meters yes and is still only a baby in real terms.

Having the mongrel in them is nothing to do with what JWH did at the weekend it is being spiteful and hurtful in contact. One of his and all good Props job is to soften up a team when they have the ball.

That is the area he needs to improve, some can and do but it tends to be a thing you have naturally. I’ve not seen it yet in him.

As I mentioned Coley seemed to stagnate a little when we signed him from
Salford. He joined with a rep of being one of the gun props in the league who needed to step up, and whilst he went about his business efficiently he never developed into his full potential until Madge arrived where he added that aggressive side to his game.

Harvard needs to add that, it is one main thing lacking in his play.

He adds that and we could have a very special player on our hands.
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Wigan 17 305 295 10 22 103.39 64.71
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Toulouse 10 456 94 362 20 485.11 100
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