Re: Squad for Wire (Magic) : Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:00 pm  

100% Warrior wrote:

That’s not a bad shout. He wouldn’t cost the earth and he’s been solid this season. He’s complement our pack quite well given his experience.

Aye but he signed for Cas and it’s a very Cas-like signing. Our way of doing things clearly works better but I do admire the Cas approach sometimes. Their timing of getting players like Westerman in seems to work well. They seem to look at players who might have had a dip in their career but they wait until they see the green shoots of recovery and snap them up. Guys like O’Brien, McShane, Turner etc being good examples.

Re: Squad for Wire (Magic) : Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:06 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Aye but he signed for Cas and it’s a very Cas-like signing. Our way of doing things clearly works better but I do admire the Cas approach sometimes. Their timing of getting players like Westerman in seems to work well. They seem to look at players who might have had a dip in their career but they wait until they see the green shoots of recovery and snap them up. Guys like O’Brien, McShane, Turner etc being good examples.

I agree to a certain level (don't really get the hype around McShane tho). Some of our fans would crucify the club if they'd have signed some of those players, but they've worked. Look at the hostility around Thornley now, or some of the responses to signing Hill as good examples.

Re: Squad for Wire (Magic) : Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:07 pm  

jonh wrote:

It’s a very tough situation.

We have blooded these youngsters, but now when they are starting to get the experience we need to manage them carefully.

The 2 lads we bring in are still young props. I think our rotation next year will be Mago, Ellis, Singleton and Havard.

Byrne and Partington to drop in when injuries occur.

I’d personally much prefer to see Isa at 13 with Faz and Bateman in the secondrow.

Then KPP off the bench along with Smithies and 2 of the 4 rotation props.

We could maybe do looking at it with 1 more older head upfront but looking at the bigger picture it would need some careful management as it would be a shame to take the pain they have gone through and not see the benefit in a couple of seasons time.

There is a line between flogging them and not holding them back. We clearly have it way off at the minute and the two lads should really help. If they were two experienced and proven performers I’d rest a lot easier but like you say, they’re pretty much juniors in experience terms.

I’ve always felt if young players are good enough they’ll find a place in the team. To have two spots in a 17 open for young forwards feels about right, maybe three at a push but certainly not the 5/6/7 Lam has been throwing in. It’s not all his own doing but he doesn’t help himself.

Re: Squad for Wire (Magic) : Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:13 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

I agree to a certain level (don't really get the hype around McShane tho). Some of our fans would crucify the club if they'd have signed some of those players, but they've worked. Look at the hostility around Thornley now, or some of the responses to signing Hill as good examples.

It is a less demanding environment at Cas in terms of their supporters expectations, so they may not work out as well here when the pressure comes on but I wouldn’t mind seeing us go that way on the odd forward signing here and there. I’d probably put Singleton in that sort of category, where he’s not top tier but he’s a solid performer and at worst he shields the young props from being over burdened even further.

Re: Squad for Wire (Magic) : Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:44 pm  

100% Warrior wrote:

Watching Catalans at the weekend and I’m not a fan of bringing old players back but we could do a lot worse than Dudson. He’s not a star, won’t get many plaudits but does his job effectively and has improved somewhat since leaving us.

I’m saying that but why would he leave South of France?

Platt Waz or the south of France….tough one that like.

Re: Squad for Wire (Magic) : Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:01 pm  

jonh wrote:

It’s a very tough situation.

We have blooded these youngsters, but now when they are starting to get the experience we need to manage them carefully.

The 2 lads we bring in are still young props. I think our rotation next year will be Mago, Ellis, Singleton and Havard.

Byrne and Partington to drop in when injuries occur.

I’d personally much prefer to see Isa at 13 with Faz and Bateman in the secondrow.

Then KPP off the bench along with Smithies and 2 of the 4 rotation props.

We could maybe do looking at it with 1 more older head upfront but looking at the bigger picture it would need some careful management as it would be a shame to take the pain they have gone through and not see the benefit in a couple of seasons time.

A backrow of Farrell Isa and Bateman would for me be pretty pointless.
Too lightweight and zero variability.
We should never have resigned Bateman. We needed a top class prop not a 13 stone athlete who can only step off his right leg. You can read Bateman like a Janet and John book. Has he ever took the outside option????

I’d have KPP at 13. He can’t play 13 at the moment but Bateman is incapable of playing traditional 13 role. KPP has a the toolkit to develop into a decent backrow forward.

Re: Squad for Wire (Magic) : Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:04 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

I agree to a certain level (don't really get the hype around McShane tho). Some of our fans would crucify the club if they'd have signed some of those players, but they've worked. Look at the hostility around Thornley now, or some of the responses to signing Hill as good examples.

I put McShane in the rugby player class. He’s not particularly athletic but he knows rugby.
Powell could play that role if he had the nuts to do so.
He’s been permanently shackled by Wane and Lam.

Re: Squad for Wire (Magic) : Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:47 am  

jonh wrote:

It’s a very tough situation.

We have blooded these youngsters, but now when they are starting to get the experience we need to manage them carefully.

The 2 lads we bring in are still young props. I think our rotation next year will be Mago, Ellis, Singleton and Havard.

Byrne and Partington to drop in when injuries occur.

I’d personally much prefer to see Isa at 13 with Faz and Bateman in the secondrow.

Then KPP off the bench along with Smithies and 2 of the 4 rotation props.

We could maybe do looking at it with 1 more older head upfront but looking at the bigger picture it would need some careful management as it would be a shame to take the pain they have gone through and not see the benefit in a couple of seasons time.

I 100% agree with this.

Bateman needs to be kept as right second row where has has played his whole career to a high level. I see no benefit in him playing as 13. He doesn't have the ball skills, he will be running into brick walls, he will have to tackle more. I am actually astonished people suggest it to be honest.

Do we find ourselves next year with too many youngsters on these "market value" contracts the club talks of?

Havard, Partington, Byrne - Front row
Smithies, Shorrocks, KPP - Second row

Experienced players - Singleton, Mago, Ellis, Isa, Farrell, Bateman

We are losing Clubb (Confirmed), Bullock (Rumoured / Expected) and Clarke (Expected) but also gaining Isa back into the pack in theory as he has played most of the season as Centre.

I worry we now have too many of these youngsters tied down who may not necessarily make the cut or get enough game time?

Re: Squad for Wire (Magic) : Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:49 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

I agree to a certain level (don't really get the hype around McShane tho). Some of our fans would crucify the club if they'd have signed some of those players, but they've worked. Look at the hostility around Thornley now, or some of the responses to signing Hill as good examples.

Chris Hills numbers do not lie. Head and shoulders above all of our forwards and the majority of the league and he has been considered this year and last as under performing...

Re: Squad for Wire (Magic) : Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:51 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

There is a line between flogging them and not holding them back. We clearly have it way off at the minute and the two lads should really help. If they were two experienced and proven performers I’d rest a lot easier but like you say, they’re pretty much juniors in experience terms.

I’ve always felt if young players are good enough they’ll find a place in the team. To have two spots in a 17 open for young forwards feels about right, maybe three at a push but certainly not the 5/6/7 Lam has been throwing in. It’s not all his own doing but he doesn’t help himself.

Is it not is own doing?

He has the option of playing Bullock and Clarke more than he does.

He could move Isa back into the pack and pick Hanley or Halsall more often.