Re: Wigan V Bradford U19 academy game : Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:21 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

I had to leave early as it was my granddaughters birthday and with the stoppage in play for the Hill acl injury and subsequent delay.
We went in the Red Robin pre game, something we always do for the academy games, feel free to join us next year.

Thanks for the invite
I will definitely take you up on that.
I’m semi retired now so I’d like to think I will have more time now to watch more rugby.

Re: Wigan V Bradford U19 academy game : Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:25 pm  

Heh! As a relative newcomer here, I'd always assumed that you guys all knew each and had been friends for donkey's years!

I watched that lad Nicholson against HKR; he can certainly play a bit!

Re: Wigan V Bradford U19 academy game : Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:56 pm  

moto748 wrote:

Heh! As a relative newcomer here, I'd always assumed that you guys all knew each and had been friends for donkey's years!

I watched that lad Nicholson against HKR; he can certainly play a bit!

I saw something yesterday in Nicholson that I hadn't seen/noticed before. He played more of a ball playing role and I can only assume that he's been working with O'Loughlin on that part of his game.

I got the acl injury wrong, it was Harvey Makin not Harvey Hill who went off, and it looked/sounded serious.

Re: Wigan V Bradford U19 academy game : Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:50 pm  

Some tough decisions to be made down the line regards all these young backrowers. The bits I’ve seen of Nicholson suggests he’ll certainly push the ones in the first team pretty hard when his chance comes. You’ve got Faz and certainly Bateman who you would expect to be around for another 4-5 years, so spaces are at a premium.

Re: Wigan V Bradford U19 academy game : Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:10 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Some tough decisions to be made down the line regards all these young backrowers. The bits I’ve seen of Nicholson suggests he’ll certainly push the ones in the first team pretty hard when his chance comes. You’ve got Faz and certainly Bateman who you would expect to be around for another 4-5 years, so spaces are at a premium.

I was saying yesterday that we didn’t need Bateman when we signed him we needed props and centres.

Anyway, young Nicholson looks the business. Don’t want to over the top on just one view but he’s big and as Rouges said looks to have an handling game coming along quite nicely.
A backrow of Isa, Bateman and Farrell for me is far too lightweight and I hope that someone like KPP or Nicholson (late 2022 or more realistically 2023 for Nicholson) will be an automatic choice for the 13 with Isa being backup or playing centre.

I suspect Smithies and Shorrocks will come under pressure for a bench spot injuries permitting, pretty quickly. I thinks Shorrocks contract is in its final year so will be interesting to see if he’s retained. I really hope we can keep Shorrocks because I’d love him to stick some of the comments from Saints fans down their throats that they came up with after the recent game.

A nice problem to have.

Re: Wigan V Bradford U19 academy game : Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:34 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

I was saying yesterday that we didn’t need Bateman when we signed him we needed props and centres.

Anyway, young Nicholson looks the business. Don’t want to over the top on just one view but he’s big and as Rouges said looks to have an handling game coming along quite nicely.
A backrow of Isa, Bateman and Farrell for me is far too lightweight and I hope that someone like KPP or Nicholson (late 2022 or more realistically 2023 for Nicholson) will be an automatic choice for the 13 with Isa being backup or playing centre.

I suspect Smithies and Shorrocks will come under pressure for a bench spot injuries permitting, pretty quickly. I thinks Shorrocks contract is in its final year so will be interesting to see if he’s retained. I really hope we can keep Shorrocks because I’d love him to stick some of the comments from Saints fans down their throats that they came up with after the recent game.

A nice problem to have.

I suppose the issue with getting Bateman was that whilst we might not need second rowers as such, we did need proven and experienced quality and if you can sign a world class performer, then you’re probably going to go for it.

I like all the young lads. I still probably have Smithies at the top of the tree tbh. I know he’s not a flashy line breaker or a lad who will play like Lockers and act as an extra stand off but he’s going very well IMO for a kid of just twenty. I thought he was one lad who could hold his head really high after Thursday. I think he made 45 tackles or so from what I saw and 9+ metres a carry. I just see really good traits in him that come natural to him. The things you can’t coach and he can work on the things that don’t come as natural.

Re: Wigan V Bradford U19 academy game : Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:51 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I suppose the issue with getting Bateman was that whilst we might not need second rowers as such, we did need proven and experienced quality and if you can sign a world class performer, then you’re probably going to go for it.

I like all the young lads. I still probably have Smithies at the top of the tree tbh. I know he’s not a flashy line breaker or a lad who will play like Lockers and act as an extra stand off but he’s going very well IMO for a kid of just twenty. I thought he was one lad who could hold his head really high after Thursday. I think he made 45 tackles or so from what I saw and 9+ metres a carry. I just see really good traits in him that come natural to him. The things you can’t coach and he can work on the things that don’t come as natural.

Smithies has got excellent work rate and fitness but that probably and hopefully won’t be enough.
The competition coming down the track will hopefully see him develop other areas of his game to make him a more rounded player. He’s certainly got a great platform to work from.

As you say when we resigned Bateman we did need his experience but without wanting to continue what I probably shouldn’t have opened, it goes back to some poor management of the cap.
Bateman has got step up very significantly next year. He’s on executive wages and he has to got to start to earn that not try and earn but actually deliver. For me it’s go to be in Peet’s top priorities for 2022 where and how Bateman is played

Re: Wigan V Bradford U19 academy game : Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:09 pm  

It’s hard for Bateman to live up to expectations. They’re rightfully huge but if you look at some recent performances, they’re not dissimilar to how he player per exit, it’s just the expectations have gone through the roof. I think I saw on Thursday he was in excess of 40 tackles and 140 metres, so that’s not too shabby by anyone’s standard. To the naked eye I thought he was quiet again. It’s the daft errors and moaning to the ref he needs to cut out for me.

I think Smithies will get better across the board. I think his running of the ball is much improved this season and he’s tough to bring down. He’s not going to be making clean breaks for fun but he drags defenders in and can make decent ground after contact. He like all the young lads is crying out for a better team to play in. I bore myself comparing him to Knowles but to do it again, I think he’s a good bit in advance of where Knowles was after 50 first team games. It’s Knowles level now that he needs to get up to. I think he can and will get there if we can sort the side out in other areas.

Re: Wigan V Bradford U19 academy game : Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:08 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

It’s hard for Bateman to live up to expectations. They’re rightfully huge but if you look at some recent performances, they’re not dissimilar to how he player per exit, it’s just the expectations have gone through the roof. I think I saw on Thursday he was in excess of 40 tackles and 140 metres, so that’s not too shabby by anyone’s standard. To the naked eye I thought he was quiet again. It’s the daft errors and moaning to the ref he needs to cut out for me.

I think Smithies will get better across the board. I think his running of the ball is much improved this season and he’s tough to bring down. He’s not going to be making clean breaks for fun but he drags defenders in and can make decent ground after contact. He like all the young lads is crying out for a better team to play in. I bore myself comparing him to Knowles but to do it again, I think he’s a good bit in advance of where Knowles was after 50 first team games. It’s Knowles level now that he needs to get up to. I think he can and will get there if we can sort the side out in other areas.

What I’m about to type will make some people laugh and think that I’ve been on the ale all afternoon but here it goes.

God willing 2022 is a World Cup year. If Smithies has anything about him he should be setting his sights on getting in the starting 13 or at worst in the squad.

Knowles is unquestionably the best backrow forward in the competition by a country mile and is a top class player. Other Than him there isn’t much else in the competition who really stands out ( l love Farrell but his size is always going to be a factor) other than Bateman.

Smithies should be mithering Peet before pre season asking for extra support in improving his fitness levels and his all round game. If he’s not thinking something similar then we’ve signed the wrong rookie. If Peet hasn’t already started organising this along with similar plans for the entire squad then we’ve signed the wrong coach.
If KR and the rest of management team aren’t thinking along these lines then we’ve got the wrong management in place.

Our academy set up is beyond any doubt the best in the uk and therefore, players who come through that into the first team squad are the best of the best. They all can’t succeed but with the right framework in place we should deliver international standard players with regulatory.

My biggest frustration with the club at the moment isn’t how we’ve managed the cap or how we mishandled Lam it’s the lack of energy that seems to have permeated throughout the club that results in low expectations across all activities of the club.
Aim for perfection accept excellence

Can Smithies up his game to match or surpass Knowles? As of right now that seems like a total and utter preposterous suggestion let alone a serious question hopefully, Smithies thinks otherwise.

Re: Wigan V Bradford U19 academy game : Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:04 pm  

He’s a good player Knowles but I don’t think his level is unachievable for Smithies or somebody like Shorrocks (I’m talking 2 or 3 years down the track here) I wouldn’t have him as the best back rower in superleague tbh. He’s the best out and out 13 (although he’s probably the only one of them in the league nowadays) but if we’re putting second rowers in there as well, then I think he’s in a group of very good ones along with guys like Faz, Bateman, Linnett and Currie. He does bring a lot of qualities that you can’t measure in stats to be fair to him. I’d have him a bit like Micky Mac was for us in that regard but to have him as a clear best he’d need to be cutting teams open with his running and passing game and he doesn’t do that. The one thing I do like about him is he seems to thrive in big games and again that’s something you can’t measure. Maybe I’m doing him a disservice but I don’t see his level as anything like a unattainable for many young backrowers across the league, as long as they’re prepared to work as hard as he does.