Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Apr 30, 2024 10:05 pm  

thesaint71 wrote:

Vaughan is the only one ready for me

Your lot said that about Murphy and what a star he was. The fans will get behind young lads, Saints need to be bold and drip feed them into first team rugby this season.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed May 01, 2024 7:43 am  

Zig wrote:

Your lot said that about Murphy and what a star he was. The fans will get behind young lads, Saints need to be bold and drip feed them into first team rugby this season.

thats where its difficult though and what i think Stu was alluding to. Its all well and good bringing 1 or 2 into a side thats playing well and having 15 seasoned pros to look after them v bringing in 6 or 7 (i know different to drip feeding too )where they are potentially risking their futures due to the physical differences from age 16-18 and not being able to compete physically / getting battered by full time pros

i know sometimes circumstances (injuries) dictate that players are thrown in too early, but i dont think Saints are in that position injury wise that they need to risk wholesale changes this season. They also have a couple of fringe players that it appears Wellens doesnt want to play (Ritson and potentially Bennison). I know Bennison has had games on the wing, but the change last week was quickly reverted by Wellens and he was brought off to put Welsby back at FB.

One of my Saints supporting mates appears to be a real fan of Ritson, posting on FB quite regularly that he should be playing. I'm in the jury out on him as yes he's fast, but i dont think he is a smart rugby player from what i've seen of him, and Wellens probably doesnt trust him to be playing every week. There's no doubt initially it was good piece of business from Saints, getting him on loan but to turn that into a permanent signing IMO was an error or he would be playing every game. He's also not a kid (28) so should be getting regular 1st team rugby somewhere

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed May 01, 2024 8:42 am  

Mark_P1973 wrote:

thats where its difficult though and what i think Stu was alluding to. Its all well and good bringing 1 or 2 into a side thats playing well and having 15 seasoned pros to look after them v bringing in 6 or 7 (i know different to drip feeding too )where they are potentially risking their futures due to the physical differences from age 16-18 and not being able to compete physically / getting battered by full time pros

i know sometimes circumstances (injuries) dictate that players are thrown in too early, but i dont think Saints are in that position injury wise that they need to risk wholesale changes this season. They also have a couple of fringe players that it appears Wellens doesnt want to play (Ritson and potentially Bennison). I know Bennison has had games on the wing, but the change last week was quickly reverted by Wellens and he was brought off to put Welsby back at FB.

One of my Saints supporting mates appears to be a real fan of Ritson, posting on FB quite regularly that he should be playing. I'm in the jury out on him as yes he's fast, but i dont think he is a smart rugby player from what i've seen of him, and Wellens probably doesnt trust him to be playing every week. There's no doubt initially it was good piece of business from Saints, getting him on loan but to turn that into a permanent signing IMO was an error or he would be playing every game. He's also not a kid (28) so should be getting regular 1st team rugby somewhere

I think Saints are being quite clever with putting Ritson on dual reg this season with Swinton. He has played the last two games with Vaughan as his centre so I think its a case of Saints having a look at them both together without the risk of doing it in SL and potentially testing out a partnership.

There's no doubt that Ritson should have perhaps had more opportunities over Bennison but we don't see him every day in training so perhaps there is still a lot of work to do.

I have to say though, to sign someone on a two year deal and never play them is strange. Granted he won't be on a lot of money but still. Unless he does get a chance over the next few weeks.

Vaughan was the England Academy captain last year as well as Lancashire and seems to have a big future ahead of him.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed May 01, 2024 9:42 am  

Stu M wrote:

I think Saints are being quite clever with putting Ritson on dual reg this season with Swinton. He has played the last two games with Vaughan as his centre so I think its a case of Saints having a look at them both together without the risk of doing it in SL and potentially testing out a partnership.

There's no doubt that Ritson should have perhaps had more opportunities over Bennison but we don't see him every day in training so perhaps there is still a lot of work to do.

I have to say though, to sign someone on a two year deal and never play them is strange. Granted he won't be on a lot of money but still. Unless he does get a chance over the next few weeks.

Vaughan was the England Academy captain last year as well as Lancashire and seems to have a big future ahead of him.

i wasnt aware he was with Vaughan, so as you say probably a good trial outside of the limelight of super league. Like i said initially i thought it was a smart piece of business, but to then offer him a deal but not particularly want to play him seems strange, even more so when he's not a young kid with plenty of opportunity for him to develop

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed May 01, 2024 10:37 am  

Mark_P1973 wrote:

thats where its difficult though and what i think Stu was alluding to. Its all well and good bringing 1 or 2 into a side thats playing well and having 15 seasoned pros to look after them v bringing in 6 or 7 (i know different to drip feeding too )where they are potentially risking their futures due to the physical differences from age 16-18 and not being able to compete physically / getting battered by full time pros

i know sometimes circumstances (injuries) dictate that players are thrown in too early, but i dont think Saints are in that position injury wise that they need to risk wholesale changes this season. They also have a couple of fringe players that it appears Wellens doesnt want to play (Ritson and potentially Bennison). I know Bennison has had games on the wing, but the change last week was quickly reverted by Wellens and he was brought off to put Welsby back at FB.

One of my Saints supporting mates appears to be a real fan of Ritson, posting on FB quite regularly that he should be playing. I'm in the jury out on him as yes he's fast, but i dont think he is a smart rugby player from what i've seen of him, and Wellens probably doesnt trust him to be playing every week. There's no doubt initially it was good piece of business from Saints, getting him on loan but to turn that into a permanent signing IMO was an error or he would be playing every game. He's also not a kid (28) so should be getting regular 1st team rugby somewhere

Saints have done it before, Delaney being a good example. I think a couple of lads, such as Vaughan, should have experienced first team rugby this season.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed May 01, 2024 10:44 am  

Zig wrote:

Saints have done it before, Delaney being a good example. I think a couple of lads, such as Vaughan, should have experienced first team rugby this season.

I think if they are going to get any game time it will be in the next few weeks. After Saturday we have a relatively "easier" set of fixtures bar Catalan at the end of May.

London and the Castleford game in particular may be a good time to have a look at Vaughan and also Stephens

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed May 01, 2024 10:52 am  

I keep hearing talk of this "Golden Generation". Given that so many careers falter between Academy and first team, what makes everyone so sure these youngsters are going to make the grade? More specifically that they're going to make the grade at the level Saints would be looking for.

I think back to the number of players tipped for big things at Wigan and I'd estimate that no more than 1 in 4 (and probably much less than that) actually go on to have long Wigan careers. Even the ones that make it (like George Williams for example) go on to have careers away from the club.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed May 01, 2024 11:21 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

I keep hearing talk of this "Golden Generation". Given that so many careers falter between Academy and first team, what makes everyone so sure these youngsters are going to make the grade? More specifically that they're going to make the grade at the level Saints would be looking for.

I think back to the number of players tipped for big things at Wigan and I'd estimate that no more than 1 in 4 (and probably much less than that) actually go on to have long Wigan careers. Even the ones that make it (like George Williams for example) go on to have careers away from the club.

Its a valid point that you make and there are certainly no guarantees. Will Roberts for example (scrum half) was looking really good and then did his cruciate ligament on loan at Swinton at 17 years of age. He has only just come back from that injury so it remains to be seen what impact it has had on him.

I can only speak from what I have seen watching a fair bit of them but its more that Mike Rush when interviewed said that he feels 4 or 5 of them won't just have solid SL careers but he described them as "game changers" so when your CEO and someone who to be fair has had a great pedigree in the youth side of rugby says that then it gives you extra confidence.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed May 01, 2024 12:52 pm  

Zig wrote:

Saints have done it before, Delaney being a good example. I think a couple of lads, such as Vaughan, should have experienced first team rugby this season.

Just going back to this, I think Wellens made a mistake by not playing a couple of them against Hull. They had a lot of injuries and young lads playing and we were at home. That would have been a perfect game for the likes of Vaughan or Stephens.

However this was the first game after the Warrington defeat and I think Wellens wanted to get back on the horse and get a good win and didn't want to risk any changes.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed May 01, 2024 12:57 pm  

Stu M wrote:

I've had a few weeks away from here as sat in Spain logging into my phone to argue with Phuzzy wasn't conducive to a relaxing family break and made me question a few things so I had a few weeks reflection. He's probably a decent bloke if I were to meet him.

However back to the rugby, I fully agree with everything TYG has said. We are awful to watch with a one dimensional attack and Warrington did a proper number on us. Williams ran the show and gave a masterclass in half back play and they went wide early and scorched us for pace.

I still think Wigan will win the comp as they have too many gamechangers and have pace to burn and a better pack than last season. My only surprise is that IMO they have only played two decent sides all season and lost them both and were a Sneyd brainfart away from losing at Salford.

They have had a very nice fixture list so far (even Leigh A was against a Leigh team with lots missing) It will be interesting to see how they go against Catalan and Warrington coming up although you coud argue Wigan will respond well to last week, perhaps Catalan will too who knows.

I actually think that Warrington would give Wigan a really good game if they are on it. They have a lot of pace, some decent forwards and the best 6 in the comp in Williams.

Back to Saints and unless we suddenly change our attack, we won't be winning the GF this season. Defensively we are still outstanding and we will always compete but Lomax is now a shadow of the player he was and for whatever reason Welsby has been very quiet, looking like he doesn't know where he should be at times.

I am going to HKR on Saturday and if we play like we did against Huddersfield and they play like they did against Wigan it will be a long day for me and my eldest lad.

We have a huge rebuilding phase coming up with likely Makinson, Hurrell, Blake and Matautia all leaving at the end of the season, not to mention we have still not replaced Grace.

Regarding the fixture list Stu we have only played two of our eight league fixtures at home. When we play London at home at the end of June we will have played 10 matches away and only three on home turf. If we are in contention at that point the LLS could be a forgone conclusion.