Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:31 pm  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

You're kidding, right? Why do you think Pep Guardiola (by all accounts) begged Arsenal for a job and wouldn't return Chelski's phonecalls?

There will probably be more newspaper articles saying he was going to Chelsea than there will have been him angling to get Arsenal to turf Wenger out. A worthless article saying he was trying to go to Arsenal is just as worthless as an article saying he was going to Chelsea.

Why is he now at Bayern? Because he's a manager who wants full control over team affairs, wants to make his own decisions over recruitment and team selection and wants to know that he'll be allowed at least some time to build a team and maybe even a club in his own image over a length of time. The same as any other top manager in fact. Any manager of Chelsea gets about 12 months (if they're lucky) before your oligarch starts buying Torreses and Ballacks and Shevchenkos off his own back and insisting that the manager plays them every week, and before he starts interfering and starts trying to influence tactics etc. What kind of self-respecting top level manager is going to be prepared to put up with that?

You do realise that Bayern Munich have been through as many managers as we have since Abramovich took over? You won't realise that, because you didn't read that in the headline in The Star, but it's true.

As bad as we've been, we haven't replaced a manager who is on his way to a title and took us to CL final the season before, which is what Bayern are now doing.

Sure, they'll get a massive wad and a guaranteed payoff in 18 months for doing so, but they can do that at Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man City, Bayern, Milan etc. and get little or none of the grief in the meantime. The only managers you're going to be able to attract in future are managers who are coming to you purely for big wads and who aren't good enough to get big wads anywhere else. Like Benitez. Your sinister owner has burned too many bridges with too many managers now to get anything else... I reckon Mancini might be coming your way once he gets booted by City - he's about your level I reckon.

No grief at Real Madrid? Stay off the drugs, fool. WTF are Man City doing in that list? They've just won the title and you're already including them in getting rid of their boss! Bayern. As I said, same amount of churn rate as us for managers. Milan??? Silvio Berlusconi is their owner. They went through a long period where Ancelotti was boss, but apart from that spell they are even more crazy about going through bosses as we are. They had 5 men in charge of the side in 2001 FFS.

We're terrible when compared to Manchester United and Arsenal. But Fergie and Wenger are the exceptions in the time they've managed. Fergie, because of his immense record of success has kept his job. But Fergie's replacement isn't getting the 4 years he got to get a sniff of the title. Arsenal have pretty much trapped themselves into keeping Wenger even though he's won nothing in 8 years. We'll see how long he lasts if he doesn't get a CL place.

What did Arsenal do to Bruce Rioch? They'd finished 12th the season before he came. He took them up to 5th. They fired him. One season he got, a 7 place league increase he brought them, and they canned him. Crazy club that Arsenal.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:35 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

[Goes to check who Fer is]

Interesting signing for Everton. One has to wonder where Mr Fellini is off to as I can't see Everton finding a spare £8.5m down the back of the couch.

We're supposedly going to throw £30m at you for him.

Like Guardiola, I don't think he'll work for us. I don't think he'll get away with the challenges in a Chelsea shirt that he gets away with for Everton. If we do sign him I hope I'm wrong, but I think he'll be a new Scott Parker for us. I guess a benefit for him is that he wouldn't have much competition, unlike Parker.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:02 am  

The numbers Chelsea go through are pretty bad, but what's alarming is the calibre of manager they're going through. Mourinho, Scolari, Ancelotti, AvB, RDM and now probably Benitez. RDM is probably the exception there but he still won a CL. You can't consistently get rid of some of the apparent best managers around and expect them to keep coming. You consistently talk about Bayern turfing their manager out, but I've always been under the impression he was leaving at the end of this season regardless of what happens. I was reading in the summer about him leaving then. You also have to consider long term stability, Guardiola is younger and could manage at years for Bayern, Heynckes is an old man nearing the end. Guardiola is the best manager alive, they had to go for him if he was interested in going, there are just too many things in his favour, despite Jupp doing well.

If you're Klopp, you have the choice of this:

1) Young team you've helped to build. You've had success, you're doing well in Europe and your reputation is through the roof at the moment.

Or

2) Chelsea job. Surreal expectations, overwhelmingly dominant players (both at the club and in the press). Ridiculous funds, both in the market and wages. An owner who is an utter nut and pulls the trigger the moment a crack appears but also still expects his team to be invincible. The owner will also sign players he wants and bring in members of the coaching staff he wants.

Clearly, Dortmund are the preferable destination by anybody with half a brain. The Chelsea job is still attractive because of the club's size, the calibre of player at the club and the club's general success over recent years. But any top manager can get a job at a club like that, they need more than that. I bet if Bayern were selling their 'vision' to Pep, he'd have completely believed them. They're football people, they know their stuff and you can see why he's gone there over Chelsea. Roman is a nut, Lamps, Cole and Terry pull too many strings and the league they play in is far too good to hide the flaws.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:43 am  

Roddy B wrote:

You consistently talk about Bayern turfing their manager out, but I've always been under the impression he was leaving at the end of this season regardless of what happens. I was reading in the summer about him leaving then. You also have to consider long term stability,

The reason I talk about Bayern is because they've had the same amount of managers as us, post Mourinho. How can we be the crazy ones, constantly getting rid of bosses at a whim and Bayern be the picture of stability WHEN THEY'VE GONE THROUGH AS MANY BOSSES AS US!

Bayern actually appoint a boss to take them to a CL final, win them a title, and then go? That's not stability, that's lunacy.

It has been a ridiculous turnover at Chelsea, and for that Roman and the board do deserve to be shot at. But to ignore the simple fact that Bayern have been just as trigger happy is BS. The only reason people jack off about the stability of Bayern is because they clearly don't know WTF they are talking about.

Guardiola is younger and could manage at years for Bayern, Heynckes is an old man nearing the end. Guardiola is the best manager alive, they had to go for him if he was interested in going, there are just too many things in his favour, despite Jupp doing well.

Barca are the best football team in the world. They have the best player on the planet. Their high energy pressing game is a joy to behold, and there is no way there are any chemicals involved, no way! They get the benefits of refereeing decisions because they are so pure of heart.

I can buy all that, well, apart from the sarcastic bits, but Guardiola still has a lot to prove before he deserves to be called the best manager alive. If Bayern are playing Barca (a peak Barca, not one where they've dipped) off the park in 2 years he'll deserve the plaudits, but he's going to Mancini-walk to the BL title and Bayern are clearly one of the strongest CL sides. He's clearly going to get an easier life at Bayern than he'd have got anywhere else. Even if he took over from Fergie he'd have still had Citeh and us to contend with. And one of us would have brought Jose over to beat him up.

In a way I wish the newspaper wet dream of him taking over at Arsenal was true. We'd have seen how he managed to build Barca-Liteandheartless to compete with Barca without the benefits of the best player on earth to use.

If you're Klopp, you have the choice of this:

1) Young team you've helped to build. You've had success, you're doing well in Europe and your reputation is through the roof at the moment.

Or

2) Chelsea job. Surreal expectations, overwhelmingly dominant players (both at the club and in the press). Ridiculous funds, both in the market and wages. An owner who is an utter nut and pulls the trigger the moment a crack appears but also still expects his team to be invincible. The owner will also sign players he wants and bring in members of the coaching staff he wants.

Clearly, Dortmund are the preferable destination by anybody with half a brain.

That's just dumb. Klopp's done a brilliant job at Dortmund but he's done it without much pressure.

Klopp has a win % of 57 as manager at BD. But they're not really expected to be winning all the titles when Bayern are there. His 57% win ratio will see him proclaimed as a genius. He gets a 57% win ratio at Chelsea, Man Utd, Citeh, Real Madrid or Barca and he's out of the door.

[/quote]I bet if Bayern were selling their 'vision' to Pep, he'd have completely believed them. They're football people, they know their stuff and you can see why he's gone there over Chelsea. [/quote]

When you look at the senior people at Bayern and compare them to the clicks at Chelsea it is ridiculous. But that's borne of the fact that Bayern are a traditional megaclub who've had world legends going through the club throughout their history.

Bayern appointing people like Rummenige and Beckenbauer is a no brainer. The German football culture is one of intelligence and success. They are guys who are recognised and respected throughout the world. Our equivalents are guys like Jimmy Greaves, Chopper Harris and Alan Hudson. If you want football people on the board then they've obviously a huge advantage. But after dinner speeches about booze and birds, we've got them stuffed!

TBH I hope that the wheels come off at Bayern for a couple of seasons. A couple of 5th place league finishes for Pep while he struggles to get them playing his fantasy football. Then we'd see how stable Bayern are and how much they hold to their vision. Sadly though he'll win his titles there as easy as Mancini did at Inter, so we'll probably never see it.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:38 am  

I'm finding Brendan Rodgers rants about their young players a tad strange, it seems far too quick of a "I blame the youngsters" jibe rather than take ownership if the situation and say "I need to do a better job at preparing and team selection" . I think he's a promising manager but there just seems to be the odd crack appearing.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:40 am  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

There will probably be more newspaper articles saying he was going to Chelsea than there will have been him angling to get Arsenal to turf Wenger out. A worthless article saying he was trying to go to Arsenal is just as worthless as an article saying he was going to Chelsea.

You do realise that Bayern Munich have been through as many managers as we have since Abramovich took over? You won't realise that, because you didn't read that in the headline in The Star, but it's true.

As bad as we've been, we haven't replaced a manager who is on his way to a title and took us to CL final the season before, which is what Bayern are now doing.

No grief at Real Madrid? Stay off the drugs, fool. WTF are Man City doing in that list? They've just won the title and you're already including them in getting rid of their boss! Bayern. As I said, same amount of churn rate as us for managers. Milan??? Silvio Berlusconi is their owner. They went through a long period where Ancelotti was boss, but apart from that spell they are even more crazy about going through bosses as we are. They had 5 men in charge of the side in 2001 FFS.

We're terrible when compared to Manchester United and Arsenal. But Fergie and Wenger are the exceptions in the time they've managed. Fergie, because of his immense record of success has kept his job. But Fergie's replacement isn't getting the 4 years he got to get a sniff of the title. Arsenal have pretty much trapped themselves into keeping Wenger even though he's won nothing in 8 years. We'll see how long he lasts if he doesn't get a CL place.

What did Arsenal do to Bruce Rioch? They'd finished 12th the season before he came. He took them up to 5th. They fired him. One season he got, a 7 place league increase he brought them, and they canned him. Crazy club that Arsenal.

Hiddink was the one that got away for me, when you had him he installed the same fear and discipline you had under Jose.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:12 am  

As much as I hate to admit it, this is a very good article by the Scum Utd runt that sums up Chelsea's management situation pretty much on the money: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... nitez.html

As much as I hate to admit it, this is a very good article by the Scum Utd runt that sums up Chelsea's management situation pretty much on the money: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... nitez.html

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:30 pm  

How annoyed is Rodgers going to be when he finds out the person in charge of Liverpool's transfers is dyslexic and its not Moutinho who arrives this week.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:37 pm  

Latics could do with a win at Sjoke tonight. We can hopefully climb above 2 sides and get out the drop zone if we do.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:09 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

[Goes to check who Fer is]

Interesting signing for Everton. One has to wonder where Mr Fellini is off to as I can't see Everton finding a spare £8.5m down the back of the couch.

Fellaini will be going in the summer, if we fail to make the top 4....By that time, Fer will have got to speed with the Premier League and will step comfortably into the Belgian's place - We will also have about £15-20 million to spend on additional squad reinforcements, as its almost certain we will be able to hold the money-laden muppets like Chelsea and Man City for the full £30 million release clause in Felaini's contract.

Putting all that together, this transfer looks another classic Moyes deal....Fer is apparently the real deal and there's no doubt that Moyes will have had him properly scouted with the job of Fellaini's replacement in mind.

As for Fellaini, as I've said before, I just don't see him being the big success that some seem to think he will be.....Will a Chelsea/Man City/Man Utd really want to totally build their game around Fellaini in the way that Everton presently do??

Chelsea certainly won't, not considering that their attacking midfield trio and its quality of play, has probably been their lone success this season and the introduction of Fellaini would inevitably disrupt that.

At one of the Champions League clubs. I can only see Fellaini being utilised as a holding midfielder, and while he is a decent one, he certainly isn't worth the huge fee that Everton will demand.