Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:25 pm  

Shouldn't a manager at one of the very top clubs be more concerned about tactical analysis of opponents and his own team rather than teaching skills etc? I mean, there must be plenty of coaches available who can teach good technical skills but breaking down the game tactically isn't as easy. I'm not saying their hands-on coaching skills are irrelevant at that level just that with the kind of resources those teams have it would be silly not to free up the manager to get involved in management and preparation issues.

On the decision making at a club, that's an owner's choice. I understand RA's desire to see attractive football and his enthusiasm to achieve it. That in itself is not an issue and when he gave Di Matteo the job I think he did so with the best of intentions i.e. he'd just won the Champs League so he deserved a crack. I'm sure though he didn't think the football they were playing was what he wanted so he gifts the squad Hazard to help make it happen. How responsible is Di Matteo in his own dismissal? If the chairman offers him the job and says he wants attractive football then Di Matteo fails to deliver, is that really the responsibility of a chairman who probably went against his gut instincts to appoint him in the first place?

When RA is spending millions and millions perhaps he has a right to oversee how the team the play. It is his money after all and it's not like he hasn't supported the club by buying bad players to improve the squad. I'm pretty sure every club in the league would have taken Cahill, Torres and Hazard. When he's supporting the club so much and it's his club then he has every right to set an objective for it, including playing attractive football. It's the modern professional sporting model.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:28 pm  

carl_spackler wrote:

Really don't see it with Welbeck, he's just another Emile Heskey. If he's England's future we're not improving any time soon.

Don't see it with Welbeck either

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:08 pm  

carl_spackler wrote:

Maybe I'm reading with the wrong tone, but I'm not sure why this seems to be suggesting that it was a shock, or that they were great choices but even they couldn't make it work. It was one guy who had an iffy record already and another who had been out of the game properly for a decade. It was a disaster waiting to happen, which everyone but King Kenny's subjects correctly predicted.

I meant that we left two people to sign players, rather than Comolli solely, and it still went wrong. It was more a reaction to the quantity rather than the quality.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:36 pm  

McClennan wrote:

On the decision making at a club, that's an owner's choice. I understand RA's desire to see attractive football and his enthusiasm to achieve it. That in itself is not an issue and when he gave Di Matteo the job I think he did so with the best of intentions i.e. he'd just won the Champs League so he deserved a crack.

I can understand wanting to play attractive football. I just think RA is dreaming if he thinks a club can be transformed into Barca over a few months while suffering no dodgy results.

If Barca came to the Premier League, I think they would suffer some transitional problems with having to adjust to the PL. I think they'd give themselves a couple of years to iron out their problems. And I think they still might struggle.

But Abramovich seemed to want to give RDM 5 games to transform the way a strong, determined team into Barca. No drop off of results. A ridiculously inbalanced squad. Abramovich was asking for the impossible. And he lost patience because it wasn't delivered instantly.

I don't think CFC had the best of intentions by appointing RDM. They appointed him because Pep said no and their other options said no as well. They grudgingly gave RDM the job, even though he'd just performed a miracle by bringing the CL and FA Cup.

I'm sure though he didn't think the football they were playing was what he wanted so he gifts the squad Hazard to help make it happen. How responsible is Di Matteo in his own dismissal? If the chairman offers him the job and says he wants attractive football then Di Matteo fails to deliver, is that really the responsibility of a chairman who probably went against his gut instincts to appoint him in the first place?

I said before RDM was appointed that I didn't think he should get the job. He was too inexperienced, he wouldn't be given the time and freedom to get the job done. We'd screw him over by not giving him enough time.

I actually think RDM was doing a very good job. We had some awful results, but we also had some great ones and some of our football was fantastic.

Against Man United we came back from 2-0 down to equalise. We had a man sent off when it was 2-1. At 2-2 Man Utd should have gone down to 10 men but Clattenburg screwed us completely and sent off Torres instead. Man United then get a late, offside goal to win against 9 men. I think if we'd won that game, which was a possibility, we would have increased our lead at the top of the table. Our season would have been massively different.

We soon sack RDM after that. We appoint Fat Boy to assure us of a top 4 place, and to move us along to deliver attractive football. That was a joke right? They saw Liverpool play under Benitez. His struggle to turn draws into wins cost them the title? Their CL win was a bigger fluke than ours. His FA Cup win was a penalty shoot out win over West ****ing Ham after a last minute equaliser. The football RDM played was infinitely better than Fat Boy's, his results were better. Our board are retarded and need shooting. Roman, send them to Siberia, make them think they're there for 10 years. Then shoot them. If you want to torture them, that's up to you, but my vote is yes to torture.

When RA is spending millions and millions perhaps he has a right to oversee how the team the play.

Of course he does. But it would help if he got a clue first. And learned that patience is a required part of the process.

It is his money after all and it's not like he hasn't supported the club by buying bad players to improve the squad. I'm pretty sure every club in the league would have taken Cahill, Torres and Hazard. When he's supporting the club so much and it's his club then he has every right to set an objective for it, including playing attractive football. It's the modern professional sporting model.

If I offered you a billion pounds to beat the 100m world record you wouldn't be able to do it. Even if you had the rest of your life to try.

If you offered Usain Bolt a billion to beat the 100m world record he'd try, but if he's not been in training for a while he'll probably fail. Give Usain Bolt a 6 month window to do it, and he's probably going to do it.

You need to be realistic about the goal, the timeline to achieve it and the personnel. We had the right man in charge with Jose Mourinho. Unrealistic expectations over how he should play, and what players he should be able to do it with, lead to him being fired. They got mad at Usain Bolt because he couldn't break the world record after he'd just started to get over an injury.

Roman's close to being the perfect owner. He just needs someone who knows what they're doing to run the club, and has the strength to tell Roman that what he's wanting is not realistic. But is Roman willing to hear that from anybody?

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:47 pm  

So Liverpool played in a game in which the opposing goalkeeper was told to concede 3. They had 7 shots on target and only managed to score 1........................

[John_D]

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:08 am  

That referee at the Burkina Faso v Ghana AFCON semi-final was, without question, the worst I have ever seen. And bear in mind that I've seen a hell of a lot of non-league football in the last decade...
He was so bad that it has to raise questions of corruption rather than mere incompetence.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:13 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

He's been outshone by Baines for about the last 3 years. Baines is comfortably the better modern fullback. Cole really adds nothing in terms of attack, he's reasonable defensively but some of the praise he's had this week has been ridiculous. England's best ever left back according to Pearce.

If Baines is as good as you claim he is, man the dude has really had a terrible career compared to his talent.

For the last three years Baines has been playing under little pressure, winning nothing, doing nothing of note.

Cole has won a Premier League title, 2 FA Cups, the Champions League. He's also been England's first choice left back with only whiny Everton fans and total Cole haters saying anything else.

If Baines is so good, he needs to get the hell out of Everton and go to a club where he can show his worth. But you don't laud Championship strikers who score 100's if they can't do it in the Premier League. Baines is operating without pressure, treading water through his career. Cole has been hoovering up the medals and England caps.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:06 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

If Baines is as good as you claim he is, man the dude has really had a terrible career compared to his talent.

If Baines is so good, he needs to get the hell out of Everton and go to a club where he can show his worth. But you don't laud Championship strikers who score 100's if they can't do it in the Premier League. Baines is operating without pressure, treading water through his career. Cole has been hoovering up the medals and England caps.

Far be it from me to come to the defence of an Evertonian, but take your Chelsea specs off and give Baines the credit he deserves.

He's a cracking left back, who over the last 18 months or so has been in better form than Cole and offers more to a team than Cole does.

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

For the last three years Baines has been playing under little pressure, winning nothing, doing nothing of note.

Cole has won a Premier League title, 2 FA Cups, the Champions League. He's also been England's first choice left back with only whiny Everton fans and total Cole haters saying anything else.

And Djimi Traoré has a Champions League winners medal, and that sure as hell doesn't make him better than any left back who hasn't got one.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:01 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

You need to be realistic about the goal, the timeline to achieve it and the personnel.

That's it there in a nutshell and it's where RA seems to have flip-flopped a bit. One minute he appears to see the long-term, next the manager is out of the door. In such environments people end up spending more time worrying about not losing their job than delivering results i.e. resort to a more conservative approach.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:54 pm  

Guerrier wrote:

Far be it from me to come to the defence of an Evertonian, but take your Chelsea specs off and give Baines the credit he deserves.

He's a cracking left back, who over the last 18 months or so has been in better form than Cole and offers more to a team than Cole does.

And Djimi Traoré has a Champions League winners medal, and that sure as hell doesn't make him better than any left back who hasn't got one.

....Remember you are dealing with LGJM here, a guy who believes that football only counts if you are playing top level Champions League stuff.....God knows how he managed in the days before Sky took over the sport and Chelsea were just another pointless London side??

As for the left back debate, personally, I reckon Baines has been the superior player over the last 12 months and its complete nonsense to suggest that it is easier for him because he plays for Everton and not a far superior CL side ( ) - The fact that top sides have been constantly sniffing around back this up and I actually find it refreshing that a player who could sell his soul, is actually showing some loyalty to a club who have helped massively to develop his career.....I have similar admiration for a player like Matt LeTissier, who was a fantastic player and could have had the pick of most of the top sides during his career, but instead chose to play for the club he obviously loves and not to just chase glory with a club(s) who he had no sentimental feeling for.

Just to stand up for Cole though, I'd actually agree he's been England's best ever left back (well, definitely in my 40 plus year lifetime).....Sansom, Mick Mills, Pearce, LeSaux??....None are really close to Cole, who, despite his unpopularity with fans and general aloofness, has always been a very good player in the big tournaments, which is where great international players should be judged.