Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:46 am  

flipper wrote:

i think zidane referred to him as untouchable too

"My toughest opponent? Scholes. He is undoubtedly the greatest player of his generation",

Scholes is a great player with the successful career to match, but his nationality has definitely played in his favour in terms of his 'status'. He's no doubt a great player, but how many people do you hear speak of the likes of Liverani or Valeron? They're two of the finest players I've ever seen, Riquelme too, although he did gain some of the hype eventually. If Scholes was Spanish, Italian or even French, would he have gained the rep he has now when his attributes may not have 'stood out' as much compared to compatriots? Over the past 10 years, how many English 'playmakers' has there actually been? I suppose that also works in his favour, as he's been able to make it in a role/style that isn't really the norm over here.

He should definitely be considered one of the best players over recent years, as there is little you can say to knock him, his career matched his ability, but I think there have been quite a few better players over the years.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:10 am  

I agree r.e Valeron. I think he was amazing when he was at Mallorca in that team of the late 90's that contained players like Roya, Marcelino, Engonga, Lauren, Stankovic and had one of the best defences in europe at that time. I was them impressed with him at Deportivo with players like Djalminha and Roy Makaay. I think it's hard to lessen Scholes based on his nationality. In my opinion he is the best central midfielder this country has produced the past 20 years by far. I get a feeling your opinion is slightly clouded because the team he has represented so greatly the past 20 years.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:08 am  

carl_spackler wrote:

It's sad that this country never appreciate the talent they have until too late. We should have built an England team around Scholes and the way he plays the game as Spain have done with Xavi et al. Instead, we shunted him out to the left and didn't even seem to make much fuss when he decided he didn't want to play for England any more.

I have a very high opinion of Scholes (we'd kill to have a similar player at City)but I think its going too far to suggest that we should have built a team round him. He was shunted to the left by Erikkson when Lampard & Gerrard were the central midfielders. At that time ie around 2003/04, Lampard was widely regarded as England's best player and very few commentators, except perhaps within Old Trafford, believed that Scholes was a better player than either Lampard or Gerrard. I dont remember anyone at the time suggesting that Scholes should have been played in central midfield in preference to those two.

Since then a combination of Scholes continued improvement and longevity (perhaps helped by his retirement from international football), Lampards relative decline and the failure of the Lampard-Gerrard partnership to prosper (although they played well enough together in the build up to Euro 2004) has caused that thinking to be questioned. But its very much a "benefit of hindsight" argument.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:29 am  

Rob, Valeron is a quality player but he's struggled with injuries throughout his career. Wasn't he only at Mallorca for the one season? For me he's definitely played his best football at Depor and although they've tried they still haven't found anyone to take his place.
Riquelme was just lazy and prone to sulking. What went on at Vila-Reial was ridiculous and did nobody any good whatsoever. Such a shame as on his day he was special.
Scholes is special in that he's been consistently good or better throughout his career and stayed loyal to his club. I genuinely think that Scholes is/was a better player than both of the above.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:08 pm  

cautious line up from fergie for me, Rafael and Berbs on the bench, Rooney up top and O'Shea at RB.

that kinda reads like United's best two players this season on the bench

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:50 pm  

Catalancs wrote:

Scholes is special in that he's been consistently good or better throughout his career and stayed loyal to his club.

Loyal to his club? There really hasn't been anywhere serious for him to go. He's been a vital, important member of the most successful and powerful club in the strongest league in Europe.

When did he ever have any option to leave? Why would he have done? It's not loyalty that kept him at United, it's basic common sense.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:28 pm  

Superb touch from Nani to bring that ball down, maybe he will make it to Real Madrid one day.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:23 pm  

Stunning Rooney goal !!

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:36 pm  

littlerich wrote:

Stunning Rooney goal !!

Not as good as Silva's

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:45 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

I have a very high opinion of Scholes (we'd kill to have a similar player at City)but I think its going too far to suggest that we should have built a team round him. He was shunted to the left by Erikkson when Lampard & Gerrard were the central midfielders. At that time ie around 2003/04, Lampard was widely regarded as England's best player and very few commentators, except perhaps within Old Trafford, believed that Scholes was a better player than either Lampard or Gerrard. I dont remember anyone at the time suggesting that Scholes should have been played in central midfield in preference to those two.

Since then a combination of Scholes continued improvement and longevity (perhaps helped by his retirement from international football), Lampards relative decline and the failure of the Lampard-Gerrard partnership to prosper (although they played well enough together in the build up to Euro 2004) has caused that thinking to be questioned. But its very much a "benefit of hindsight" argument.

I don't personally think Lampard has ever been one England's best players. I think the number of caps he has racked up is a joke.