Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:36 pm  

carl_spackler wrote:

Isn't it just mostly that Celtic wouldn't listen to sensible offers in January? With both Wanyama and Hooper Lennon kept banging on about wanting more money (I think he said about £10m for Hooper and £25m for Wanyama). Nobody (sane) wants to pay that sort of money on mid-season gambles from Scottish football.

Try my lot - QPR - as they'll seemingly pay over the odds for anyone.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:40 pm  

Arsene Wenger is doing a Brian Clough. Arsenal have to get shut soon or the slide will continue

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:46 pm  

duke street 10 wrote:

Arsene Wenger is doing a Brian Clough. Arsenal have to get shut soon or the slide will continue

They need better players than what they have now. There is no Thierry Henry, Dennis Bergkamp, Freddie Ljungberg or Patrick Vieira in that team. I used to love watching Arsenal on TV as their football was beautiful to watch.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:22 pm  

If Wenger was "doing a Clough" he'd at least have two European Cups to his name...

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:43 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

If Wenger was "doing a Clough" he'd at least have two European Cups to his name...

The highs were higher under Clough, but the lows were lower too. Being relegated from the CL qualifying positions is nowhere near as bad as getting relegated from the Premier League like Cloughie did.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:48 am  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

The highs were higher under Clough, but the lows were lower too. Being relegated from the CL qualifying positions is nowhere near as bad as getting relegated from the Premier League like Cloughie did.

Wasn't meant to be a compaison to Clough on trophies won or relegation. It is the sentimentality some Arsenal fans and people are holding for Wenger for the success he had at the beginning of his stint of manager.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:11 am  

duke street 10 wrote:

Wasn't meant to be a compaison to Clough on trophies won or relegation. It is the sentimentality some Arsenal fans and people are holding for Wenger for the success he had at the beginning of his stint of manager.

I don't think it's sentiment that is keeping Wenger at Arsenal. I think they are so committed to the ideology, the dogma that Arsenal have built around themselves. They've convinced themselves that playing a supposedly beautiful playing style is worth losing trophies for. They insist that being in profit is absolutely essential and the only way a football club should be run.

Lenny the Loiner was a prime example of just what a bunch of 'tards Arsenal fans are. The idiot said that keeping Thierry Henry at Arsenal was more important than winning the CL final against Barca. I mean, honestly, how warped does a football fan need to be to believe that complete and utter shi'ite?

The problem for Arsenal is that they've gone so far down the Wenger Financial Stability Path that it's the only road for miles. Wenger's one of the only managers who manage that way. He's the best guy for doing that. He's been the preacher who led them down that path. They get rid of him and try and stick to the same principles then they're very likely to end up with an inferior driver driving down Wenger's road.

The other option is to start again and bring in a manager who actually wants to win things. But that'll cost them money, and even more important it will show that the nonsense they've been spouting for the last 8 years has always been BS.

The major problem for Arsenal is CL qualification. That's the drug that Arsenal need, that's the source of financial stability. Up until now it's never been a major problem. They've qualified every year. Job done. But now, with the financially manipulated Citeh and Chelsea above them, they are in serious danger of heading out of the CL places. And then there's a good chance that Arsenal's Financial Stability wasn't the great blueprint they claimed, they were just being boosted massively by the increased CL revenues and they were big enough so other clubs couldn't get close to them.

Wenger is a great manager. I have never, ever denied that. I still think he's a great manager, even if he's heading out of Arsenal. My major problem was with the lauding of him as the best manager in the PL. He's always been in the shadow of Ferguson and Mourinho, it was always BS for anyone to laud him over guys who are rabidly intent on actually winning things.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:44 am  

The thing with Wenger and this 'financial stability' is it made a lot more sense in the past when he had lots of great young players coming through. When the likes of Diaby, Denilson, Song and Walcott were all 'young' and coming through, you could understand in a way why he wouldn't spend money, they were potential talent that he'd only be hindering by signing senior players.

However, that has now passed and Wenger has reached a point where he's actually signing mediocrity, and, correct me if I'm wrong, his wage budget is through the roof even if he doesn't spend spectacular sums. Mertesacker, Koscielny, Arteta, Podolski and Giroud are signings that typify Wenger over recent years. None of them are very strong players, none of them do anything spectacularly and they all combine to make Arsenal the vulnerable mess they are. The attack isn't clinical, the midfield lacks control and the defence leaks goals without batting an eyelid.

I'm a huge Wenger fan, or I was a huge Wenger fan, his team we knocked out of Europe in 2008 (I think it was then) was excellent, Adebayor was brilliant, Hleb, Fabregas and Flamini were class, whilst Gilberto and Diaby provided great cover. Their defence was still suspect (Gallas was class but Toure was average) but they were a much greater attacking force. It seems Wenger went from having everything under control with a great plan for the future, to losing all of his stars and wondering what might have been if Ramsey and Wilshere didn't miss a year of their careers.

I think AW is a great manager, when RvP left and he replaced him with Giroud, for me that should have alerted all fans that he was ready to go. He's done nothing to change my mind since but I think if anybody has earned that little bit of extra time to change things, it's probably Wenger. He has it in him, it just requires an awful lot of realisation and acceptance that things aren't working. Now isn't the time to be stubborn.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:08 pm  

Roddy B wrote:

The thing with Wenger and this 'financial stability' is it made a lot more sense in the past when he had lots of great young players coming through. When the likes of Diaby, Denilson, Song and Walcott were all 'young' and coming through, you could understand in a way why he wouldn't spend money, they were potential talent that he'd only be hindering by signing senior players.

However, that has now passed and Wenger has reached a point where he's actually signing mediocrity, and, correct me if I'm wrong, his wage budget is through the roof even if he doesn't spend spectacular sums. Mertesacker, Koscielny, Arteta, Podolski and Giroud are signings that typify Wenger over recent years. None of them are very strong players, none of them do anything spectacularly and they all combine to make Arsenal the vulnerable mess they are. The attack isn't clinical, the midfield lacks control and the defence leaks goals without batting an eyelid.

I'm a huge Wenger fan, or I was a huge Wenger fan, his team we knocked out of Europe in 2008 (I think it was then) was excellent, Adebayor was brilliant, Hleb, Fabregas and Flamini were class, whilst Gilberto and Diaby provided great cover. Their defence was still suspect (Gallas was class but Toure was average) but they were a much greater attacking force. It seems Wenger went from having everything under control with a great plan for the future, to losing all of his stars and wondering what might have been if Ramsey and Wilshere didn't miss a year of their careers.

I think AW is a great manager, when RvP left and he replaced him with Giroud, for me that should have alerted all fans that he was ready to go. He's done nothing to change my mind since but I think if anybody has earned that little bit of extra time to change things, it's probably Wenger. He has it in him, it just requires an awful lot of realisation and acceptance that things aren't working. Now isn't the time to be stubborn.

If I were an Arsenal shareholder I'd probably be delighted with the job he's doing. They've got a choice and I'm not sure it's all down to Wenger. They either spend £200m, which is what it would take for them to win the league over United, Chelsea and Manchester City, or they continue as they are and make a profit in years they make the Champions League and a small loss in the years they don't. Of course the fans want the money spent, but I don't think it's as much Wenger's call as he makes out. He is just trying to justify staying there by taking the bullet for the board. If there really were oodles of free cash laying about for him to spend, surely the board there would start insisting on some achievement and question why he's not spending it while they are as unsuccessful as they currently are?

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:34 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

If I were an Arsenal shareholder I'd probably be delighted with the job he's doing. They've got a choice and I'm not sure it's all down to Wenger. They either spend £200m, which is what it would take for them to win the league over United, Chelsea and Manchester City, or they continue as they are and make a profit in years they make the Champions League and a small loss in the years they don't. Of course the fans want the money spent, but I don't think it's as much Wenger's call as he makes out. He is just trying to justify staying there by taking the bullet for the board. If there really were oodles of free cash laying about for him to spend, surely the board there would start insisting on some achievement and question why he's not spending it while they are as unsuccessful as they currently are?

Times in the past he hasn't 'needed' that much cash. I know it's hard looking back at prices for players given today's inflation, but some of the fees spent on players shows he definitely has/had a better eye than the majority for diamonds in the rough. He made ridiculous money on a lot of his signings (thanks to Man City in fairness) and he was signing some world class players for small amounts. He'd often sign them before they were world class and they'd eventually flourish into world class players under his management, but now his approach has changed to signing established talent with little room to improve, but he seems insistent on signing mediocrity.

Has he lost the ability to find the best youngsters? Are the purse strings really so tight that he can't even sign the best/better youngsters any more? Why did he miss Cabaye but sign Arteta? Gervinho over Ben Arfa? How did Wenger miss out on Michu? The thing Wenger always had on competitors was his ability to spot the talent before the price tag had inflated, he's lost that now and he's been left with an inflated wage bill and a very mediocre side. If you look at who's out on loan as well, it's even scarier. Chamakh, Bendtner, Andre Santos, Djourou, Denilson and Park Chu-Young are all out on loan, with the likes of Arshavin and Squillaci sat on his bench every week.